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Old 12-06-2008, 06:44 AM
Sven Joachim
 
Default xorg and fonts

On 2008-12-06 08:23 +0100, lee wrote:

> Hi,
>
> is there something that is supposed to update /etc/X11/xorg.conf
> regarding font paths

Use $EDITOR for that if you must.

> --- or something that is supposed to make the
> installed fonts available otherwise? I got an automatically created
> xorg.conf with no font paths specified, so I put the paths in
> myself. Or do things like kdm/gdm/xdm specify font paths on the
> commandline when starting the xserver?
>
> There was a Section "Files" in xorg.conf, but it was empty.

Which is fine because the X server knows (or at least, is supposed to
know) where to find fonts.

Sven


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Old 12-06-2008, 06:52 AM
Osamu Aoki
 
Default xorg and fonts

On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 01:23:31AM -0600, lee wrote:
> Hi,
>
> is there something that is supposed to update /etc/X11/xorg.conf
> regarding font paths --- or something that is supposed to make the
> installed fonts available otherwise? I got an automatically created
> xorg.conf with no font paths specified, so I put the paths in
> myself. Or do things like kdm/gdm/xdm specify font paths on the
> commandline when starting the xserver?
>
> There was a Section "Files" in xorg.conf, but it was empty.

Yes there was .... I also wondered... that wa core X11 core fonts
Now we have xft2:

http://people.debian.org/~osamu/pub/getwiki/html/ch08.en.html#fontsinthexwindow

Osamu


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Old 12-06-2008, 06:57 AM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default xorg and fonts

On Saturday 2008 December 06 01:23, lee wrote:
> I got an automatically created
> xorg.conf with no font paths specified,

That's fine, X.org's X11 server has some default paths it uses.

> so I put the paths in
> myself.

That's fine too; they will supplement, not replace the default list, unless
you use a special option.
--
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Old 12-06-2008, 07:13 AM
lee
 
Default xorg and fonts

On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 08:44:30AM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2008-12-06 08:23 +0100, lee wrote:
> > There was a Section "Files" in xorg.conf, but it was empty.
>
> Which is fine because the X server knows (or at least, is supposed to
> know) where to find fonts.

See man xorg.conf:


"When this [the FontPath] entry is not specified in the config file,
the server falls back to the compiled-in default font path, which
contains the following font path elements:

/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc/
/usr/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/
/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/
/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/
/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/"


lee@cat:~$ ls -la /usr/lib/X11/
total 48
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2008-12-06 00:33 .
drwxr-xr-x 95 root root 40960 2008-12-05 23:31 ..
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-12-06 00:33 x11perfcomp
lee@cat:~$


The server knows where it could find fonts, but there are none. It
worked before I made the FontPath entries, though.

So how does the xserver find the fonts?


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Old 12-06-2008, 07:21 AM
lee
 
Default xorg and fonts

On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 04:52:45PM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 01:23:31AM -0600, lee wrote:
> > There was a Section "Files" in xorg.conf, but it was empty.
>
> Yes there was .... I also wondered... that wa core X11 core fonts
> Now we have xft2:
>
> http://people.debian.org/~osamu/pub/getwiki/html/ch08.en.html#fontsinthexwindow

Ah, thanks! So I shouldn't have FontPath entries in xorg.conf, it
works automagically


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Old 12-06-2008, 07:37 AM
Sven Joachim
 
Default xorg and fonts

On 2008-12-06 09:13 +0100, lee wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 08:44:30AM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
>> On 2008-12-06 08:23 +0100, lee wrote:
>> > There was a Section "Files" in xorg.conf, but it was empty.
>>
>> Which is fine because the X server knows (or at least, is supposed to
>> know) where to find fonts.
>
> See man xorg.conf:
>
>
> "When this [the FontPath] entry is not specified in the config file,
> the server falls back to the compiled-in default font path, which
> contains the following font path elements:
>
> /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc/
> /usr/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/
> /usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/
> /usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/
> /usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/"

The manpage is wrong about the paths, fonts are in /usr/share/fonts and
that's where the server looks. See http://bugs.debian.org/428918.

> lee@cat:~$ ls -la /usr/lib/X11/
> total 48
> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2008-12-06 00:33 .
> drwxr-xr-x 95 root root 40960 2008-12-05 23:31 ..
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-12-06 00:33 x11perfcomp
> lee@cat:~$
>
>
> The server knows where it could find fonts, but there are none. It
> worked before I made the FontPath entries, though.
>
> So how does the xserver find the fonts?

It uses a compile-time path, we have to UTSL to find it out. The Debian
package is configured with (sorry for the overly long line)

--with-default-font-path="/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc,/usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic,/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled,/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi/:unscaled,/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1,/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi,/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi,/var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType"

Sven


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Old 12-06-2008, 06:31 PM
lee
 
Default xorg and fonts

On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 09:37:38AM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:

> The manpage is wrong about the paths, fonts are in /usr/share/fonts and
> that's where the server looks. See http://bugs.debian.org/428918.

This bug doesn't mention the paths. I'll send a followup.

> It uses a compile-time path, we have to UTSL to find it out. The Debian
> package is configured with (sorry for the overly long line)
>
> --with-default-font-path="/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi/:unscaled,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi,
> /var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType"

UTSL?

xset q says:

Font Path:
/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled,
/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc/,
/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1/,
/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc,
/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled,
/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1,
/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi,
/var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType

So what does it mean when man xorg.conf says that "the server falls
back to the compiled-in default font path" in case no font path is
specified in xorg.conf? In xorg.conf, I have specified:

FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/encodings/"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc/"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1/"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/util/"

Now some font paths seem to come from somewhere else than from the
configuration. What happens with the compiled-in defaults when a font
path is specified in the configuration?

And look at the path: Three entries are doubled (100dpi/:unscaled,
misc, Type1), one entry seems to be incorrect (100dpi), and one entry
might come from the compiled-in defaults. Two of the paths I specified
seem to be invalid --- if there are no fonts in those directories,
what do they have to do under /usr/share/X11/fonts? What a mess ...

Is it just me, or is Debian getting more and more sloppy with things
like this?


--
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Old 12-06-2008, 08:41 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default xorg and fonts

On Saturday 06 December 2008, lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> wrote about 'Re:
xorg and fonts':
>Is it just me, or is Debian getting more and more sloppy with things
>like this?

Could you please provide an example of the old behavior (e.g. by installing
sarge or previous and showing the output with the same
[modulo "backporting"] configuration) to show how the new behavior is
more "sloppy"? Or are you just throwing around unsubstantiated claims?

In any case, upstream changes sometimes cause your or Debian's
configuration to be redundant. Last I checked one of X.org's stated goals
for their X11 server is to make /dev/null a valid configuration file
that "just works". As that occurs, less and less of your or Debian's
configuration will be required (but still useful when things don't "just
work").
--
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bss03@volumehost.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/
 
Old 12-06-2008, 08:56 PM
Sven Joachim
 
Default xorg and fonts

On 2008-12-06 20:31 +0100, lee wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 09:37:38AM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
>> It uses a compile-time path, we have to UTSL to find it out. The Debian
>> package is configured with (sorry for the overly long line)
>>
>> --with-default-font-path="/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc,
>> /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic,
>> /usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled,
>> /usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi/:unscaled,
>> /usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1,
>> /usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi,
>> /usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi,
>> /var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType"
>
> UTSL?

"Use the source, Luke" -- see http://catb.org/jargon/html/U/UTSL.html.

> xset q says:
>
> Font Path:
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/misc/,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1/,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/misc,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1,
> /usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi,
> /var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType
>
> So what does it mean when man xorg.conf says that "the server falls
> back to the compiled-in default font path" in case no font path is
> specified in xorg.conf? In xorg.conf, I have specified:
>
> FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/encodings/"
> FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled"
> FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc/"
> FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1/"
> FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/util/"

Do these directories all exist? Non-existent entries will be removed
from the font path.

> Now some font paths seem to come from somewhere else than from the
> configuration. What happens with the compiled-in defaults when a font
> path is specified in the configuration?

They are merged, with the font path in the configuration coming first.
See /usr/share/doc/xserver-xorg-core/NEWS.Debian.gz for details.

> And look at the path: Three entries are doubled (100dpi/:unscaled,
> misc, Type1),

Because they are in the xorg.conf _and_ in the default path.

> one entry seems to be incorrect (100dpi),

Why should it be incorrect?

> and one entry
> might come from the compiled-in defaults.

The /var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType directory, I
suppose.

> Two of the paths I specified
> seem to be invalid --- if there are no fonts in those directories,
> what do they have to do under /usr/share/X11/fonts? What a mess ...

It was _you_ who specified them, and the X server just corrected that
misconfiguration by deleting non-existent directories. The entry

FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/encodings/"

only makes sense if the xfonts-encodings is installed, for instance.

> Is it just me, or is Debian getting more and more sloppy with things
> like this?

Apart from the bad xorg.conf manpage, I don't see anything wrong.

Sven


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