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Old 08-09-2008, 08:40 PM
Shachar Or
 
Default APT recommendations/suggestions not obvious

Hi.

why doesn't aptitude show me for what purpose a package reccomends or suggests
another?

I'd very much like that because sometimes, perhaps many times, I can't guess
it and even if I can guess it, how do I know?

I find that many times README.Debian doesn't mention those things.

Any thoughts about this?

Good week!

--
Shachar Or | שחר אור
http://ox.freeallweb.org/


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Old 08-09-2008, 09:58 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default APT recommendations/suggestions not obvious

On 08/09/08 15:40, Shachar Or wrote:

Hi.

why doesn't aptitude show me for what purpose a package reccomends or suggests
another?


I'd very much like that because sometimes, perhaps many times, I can't guess
it and even if I can guess it, how do I know?


I find that many times README.Debian doesn't mention those things.

Any thoughts about this?


At times like this, I just flip to another open xterm and do
"apt-cache show".


--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Scientists are people, too. IOW, they also "crave power, money,
respect, and influence, and they also fear for their jobs. Each
can be a healthy motivator, but each has the ability to turn a
good scientist into a bad one; and in some cases, they can turn
a good scientist into a charlatan."
http://thefutureofthings.com/book/3/the-bomb-that-never-was.html


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Old 08-09-2008, 10:05 PM
Shachar Or
 
Default APT recommendations/suggestions not obvious

On Sunday 10 August 2008 00:58, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 08/09/08 15:40, Shachar Or wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > why doesn't aptitude show me for what purpose a package reccomends or
> > suggests another?
> >
> > I'd very much like that because sometimes, perhaps many times, I can't
> > guess it and even if I can guess it, how do I know?
> >
> > I find that many times README.Debian doesn't mention those things.
> >
> > Any thoughts about this?
>
> At times like this, I just flip to another open xterm and do
> "apt-cache show".

What information does that print that I don't already know from aptitude?
>
> --
> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA USA
>
> Scientists are people, too. IOW, they also "crave power, money,
> respect, and influence, and they also fear for their jobs. Each
> can be a healthy motivator, but each has the ability to turn a
> good scientist into a bad one; and in some cases, they can turn
> a good scientist into a charlatan."
> http://thefutureofthings.com/book/3/the-bomb-that-never-was.html

--
Shachar Or | שחר אור
http://ox.freeallweb.org/


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Old 08-10-2008, 12:35 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default APT recommendations/suggestions not obvious

On 08/09/08 17:05, Shachar Or wrote:

On Sunday 10 August 2008 00:58, Ron Johnson wrote:

On 08/09/08 15:40, Shachar Or wrote:

Hi.

why doesn't aptitude show me for what purpose a package reccomends or
suggests another?

I'd very much like that because sometimes, perhaps many times, I can't
guess it and even if I can guess it, how do I know?

I find that many times README.Debian doesn't mention those things.

Any thoughts about this?

At times like this, I just flip to another open xterm and do
"apt-cache show".


What information does that print that I don't already know from aptitude?


I think I might have misread your post. Anyway, seeing the
Recommended's full description just helps me deduce why it would be
recommended.


TTBOMK, neither apt/aptitude/synaptics stores explicit "this is why
package A is recommended" data. If it did, I'd immediately convert
to that app.


--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Scientists are people, too. IOW, they also "crave power, money,
respect, and influence, and they also fear for their jobs. Each
can be a healthy motivator, but each has the ability to turn a
good scientist into a bad one; and in some cases, they can turn
a good scientist into a charlatan."
http://thefutureofthings.com/book/3/the-bomb-that-never-was.html


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Old 08-10-2008, 01:19 AM
Shachar Or
 
Default APT recommendations/suggestions not obvious

On Sunday 10 August 2008 03:35, Ron Johnson wrote:
> TTBOMK, neither apt/aptitude/synaptics stores explicit "this is why
> package A is recommended" data. If it did, I'd immediately convert
> to that app.

It would be great to have this as part of packaging policy and the packaging
tools to be able to fetch this information.

Where does this feature request belong? debian-devel list?
>
> --
> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA USA
>
> Scientists are people, too. IOW, they also "crave power, money,
> respect, and influence, and they also fear for their jobs. Each
> can be a healthy motivator, but each has the ability to turn a
> good scientist into a bad one; and in some cases, they can turn
> a good scientist into a charlatan."
> http://thefutureofthings.com/book/3/the-bomb-that-never-was.html

--
Shachar Or | שחר אור
http://ox.freeallweb.org/


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Old 08-10-2008, 01:33 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default APT recommendations/suggestions not obvious

On 08/09/08 20:19, Shachar Or wrote:

On Sunday 10 August 2008 03:35, Ron Johnson wrote:

TTBOMK, neither apt/aptitude/synaptics stores explicit "this is why
package A is recommended" data. If it did, I'd immediately convert
to that app.


It would be great to have this as part of packaging policy and the packaging
tools to be able to fetch this information.


Where does this feature request belong? debian-devel list?


That's where I'd first broach the idea.

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Scientists are people, too. IOW, they also "crave power, money,
respect, and influence, and they also fear for their jobs. Each
can be a healthy motivator, but each has the ability to turn a
good scientist into a bad one; and in some cases, they can turn
a good scientist into a charlatan."
http://thefutureofthings.com/book/3/the-bomb-that-never-was.html


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Old 08-11-2008, 03:28 AM
"David Fox"
 
Default APT recommendations/suggestions not obvious

On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> wrote:
> TTBOMK, neither apt/aptitude/synaptics stores explicit "this is why package
> A is recommended" data. If it did, I'd immediately convert to that app.

In times like these, then aptitude why or whynot may be useful. I've
only used it a few times, and if I choose a package at random, I might
get a terse line like "bash suggests bash-doc" if I do 'aptitude why
bash-doc' or nothing at all other than "the package is manually
installed for something like gwenview-kde4.

> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA USA


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Old 08-11-2008, 04:53 AM
Daniel Burrows
 
Default APT recommendations/suggestions not obvious

On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 07:35:18PM -0500, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> was heard to say:
> TTBOMK, neither apt/aptitude/synaptics stores explicit "this is why
> package A is recommended" data. If it did, I'd immediately convert to
> that app.

The problem is that this information isn't stored anywhere in a
standard, machine-parsable format. If it was, I'd immediately start
using it. I know there was some discussion in the last year or so about
documenting Suggests, but I don't recall what happened to it...

Daniel


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Old 08-11-2008, 05:59 AM
Shachar Or
 
Default APT recommendations/suggestions not obvious

On Monday 11 August 2008 07:53, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 07:35:18PM -0500, Ron Johnson
<ron.l.johnson@cox.net> was heard to say:
> > TTBOMK, neither apt/aptitude/synaptics stores explicit "this is why
> > package A is recommended" data. If it did, I'd immediately convert to
> > that app.
>
> The problem is that this information isn't stored anywhere in a
> standard, machine-parsable format. If it was, I'd immediately start
> using it. I know there was some discussion in the last year or so about
> documenting Suggests, but I don't recall what happened to it...

Hi.

I've started a [1]discussion in debian-devel and debian-dpkg. Haven't any
replies yet.

>
> Daniel

1. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/08/msg00255.html
--
Shachar Or | שחר אור
http://ox.freeallweb.org/


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Old 08-11-2008, 12:14 PM
Chris Bannister
 
Default APT recommendations/suggestions not obvious

On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 11:40:06PM +0300, Shachar Or wrote:
> Hi.
>
> why doesn't aptitude show me for what purpose a package reccomends or suggests
> another?
>
> I'd very much like that because sometimes, perhaps many times, I can't guess
> it and even if I can guess it, how do I know?
>
> I find that many times README.Debian doesn't mention those things.
>
> Any thoughts about this?

Yeah, why does "podracer" _depend_ on "screen"? I'd even be skeptical if it
was a suggests. Since recommends are now installed automatically and
recommends are considered a weak depends anyway, if you turn set install
recommends to false you could end up with non-working features.

If you find any packages where the recommends should obviously be a
suggests, please file a bug.

--
Chris.
======
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god
than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
-- Sir Stephen Henry Roberts


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