FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 08-05-2008, 02:46 PM
andy
 
Default Benefits (and risks) of using Sid

Kent West wrote:

andy wrote:

Hi all

This is just a general enquiry about the benefits of using Sid on a
desktop or a workstation. Aside from obtaining up-to-the-minute
software (and related patches), are there any other benefits to using
Sid? I am aware of the risks - i.e. frequently broken applications -
but to be honest, how often does this happen?



I run Sid on my workstations; it's as stable as any Windows box I've
ever run


With respect Kent, that is hardly a ringing endorsement!!


The read advantage of Sid over Testing is when breakage does occur.
With Testing, you may have to wait a week or two before the fix comes
along; with Sid, the fix is often available within a day or two (not
always, but often). The disadvantage is that breakage usually occurs
more often than in Testing, but as a general rule, such breakage is
confined to a small subset of the system (again, not always.)


That's a fair point. I currently run stable (Lenny) because it seemed to
be a good balance between (relatively) up-to-date software that has
(mostly) had its bugs worked through.


Every once in a while a bug will creep in that will totally hose
things for a while, and may take some expertise and/or a learning
curve to fix, but like I say, my Sid experience over the past
almost-decade has been less-problematic than my Windows experiences
over twice that time.
It's this "expertise" that concerns me. I used to feel more confident in
using Slackware than I do using Debian, although I was far more into
fixing things and peering under the hood in those days than I am today
and I guess after a few years of using a distro one gets to know it
pretty well. The Debian-way does remain a bit of a mystery to me however.


For a server or other mission-critical role, I'd suggest you stay with
Stable.


That's a reasonable suggestion, and I probably will do so. However, your
reply does help address my query - thanks.


A

--

"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." - Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 08-05-2008, 04:18 PM
Andrei Popescu
 
Default Benefits (and risks) of using Sid

On Tue,05.Aug.08, 14:09:34, andy wrote:
> Hi all
>
> This is just a general enquiry about the benefits of using Sid on a desktop
> or a workstation. Aside from obtaining up-to-the-minute software (and
> related patches), are there any other benefits to using Sid? I am aware of

Yes, you get the chance to know your system *really* well

> the risks - i.e. frequently broken applications - but to be honest, how
> often does this happen?

You've been watching the list, haven't you?

Regards,
Andrei
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
 
Old 08-05-2008, 04:27 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Benefits (and risks) of using Sid

On 08/05/08 08:33, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008, andy wrote:
This is just a general enquiry about the benefits of using Sid on a
desktop or a workstation. Aside from obtaining up-to-the-minute software
(and related patches), are there any other benefits to using Sid? I am


Yes, but none that you can't get also from using testing and fetching
whatever extra packages you need ASAP directly from Sid.

aware of the risks - i.e. frequently broken applications - but to be
honest, how often does this happen?


Often enough. Really.


Maybe I just don't stress enough packages, but I don't see *that
many* show stopping or aggravating Debian-fixable bugs.


My big problems now are:
a) nvidia binary driver doesn't build on .26 (which I need for other
reasons),
b) the modern kernel ieee1394 driver doesn't have as many features
as the old driver, so kino doesn't work anymore.

But Debian Developers can't do anything about them.

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Scientists are people, too. IOW, they also "crave power, money,
respect, and influence, and they also fear for their jobs. Each
can be a healthy motivator, but each has the ability to turn a
good scientist into a bad one; and in some cases, they can turn
a good scientist into a charlatan."
http://thefutureofthings.com/book/3/the-bomb-that-never-was.html


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 08-05-2008, 06:15 PM
Andrew Sackville-West
 
Default Benefits (and risks) of using Sid

On Tue, Aug 05, 2008 at 02:09:34PM +0100, andy wrote:
> Hi all
>
> This is just a general enquiry about the benefits of using Sid on a
> desktop or a workstation. Aside from obtaining up-to-the-minute software
> (and related patches), are there any other benefits to using Sid? I am
> aware of the risks - i.e. frequently broken applications - but to be
> honest, how often does this happen?
>
> Any thoughts (no flames please - I recycled my asbestos suit!!)

I find sid doesn't break that often for me. I can think of maybe two
instances in the past three years where I've had a serious enough
breakage that I had to stop everything else to solve the problem.

Lately though, I've gotten lazy and haven't kept up with the
updates. I'm probably running closer to lenny at the moment... If you
don't keep up with the updates, you quickly fall *way* behind and have
to plan the updates. If you do it every day, it's no big deal... a
handful of packages. If you wait a week, you have to stop and think
and pay close attention. If you wait a month, set aside a couple of
hours in case something get's hosed because you'll be updating
hundreds of packages.

.02

A
 
Old 08-05-2008, 08:00 PM
Paul Scott
 
Default Benefits (and risks) of using Sid

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 05, 2008 at 02:09:34PM +0100, andy wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>>
>> This is just a general enquiry about the benefits of using Sid on a
>> desktop or a workstation. Aside from obtaining up-to-the-minute software
>> (and related patches), are there any other benefits to using Sid? I am
>> aware of the risks - i.e. frequently broken applications - but to be
>> honest, how often does this happen?
>>
>> Any thoughts (no flames please - I recycled my asbestos suit!!)
>>
>
> I find sid doesn't break that often for me. I can think of maybe two
> instances in the past three years where I've had a serious enough
> breakage that I had to stop everything else to solve the problem.
>
> Lately though, I've gotten lazy and haven't kept up with the
> updates. I'm probably running closer to lenny at the moment... If you
> don't keep up with the updates, you quickly fall *way* behind and have
> to plan the updates. If you do it every day, it's no big deal... a
> handful of packages. If you wait a week, you have to stop and think
> and pay close attention. If you wait a month, set aside a couple of
> hours in case something get's hosed because you'll be updating
> hundreds of packages.
>
My essential point is to install apt-listbugs as soon as possible and
use the information it gives to either wait for the problem to be fixed
or research the problem. I have no idea whether apt-listbugs is part of
the basic installation.

I might be concerned right now because the current version of apt has
some bugs.

aptitude makes it easy to "plan the updates"

Paul Scott



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 08-05-2008, 08:15 PM
Hans Christian
 
Default Benefits (and risks) of using Sid

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:09:34 +0100
andy <geek_show@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> This is just a general enquiry about the benefits of using Sid on a
> desktop or a workstation. Aside from obtaining up-to-the-minute software
> (and related patches), are there any other benefits to using Sid? I am
> aware of the risks - i.e. frequently broken applications - but to be
> honest, how often does this happen?
>
> Any thoughts (no flames please - I recycled my asbestos suit!!)
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>

I used sid at home and at work for seven years before I got a kid and switched
to stable .

In my experience, there are great benefits in using sid if you are alone or
one of a few GNU/Linux users in a huge windows network like I am at work. Every
month or so, there's something new that you're supposed to be able to deal
with. It can be some new windows communications software, a new printer, a new
file format or some other stuff. Using sid helps you deal with that much better
than stable does. Also, sid is fun. Stable is boring .

Sid does break stuff though, but this need not be a huge problem. I did two
things that saved my ass when things got really borked. First, I made sure I
had console tools for basic stuff ready and configured: links, mutt, latex etc.
That way you can still surf the web and produce nice documents should graphics
break down. Second, I kept a backup partition where I duplicated my sid system
manually every time I felt that "wow, right now, sid is working almost
flawlessly". If things broke at a real inconvenient time, I just booted the
backup system. Other than that, I just updated every day except when I knew
beforehand that it would be a rough day.

Keeping an eye on what gets updated is a good idea too. If you see a move from
xfree86 to xorg, maybe you should check the lists before updating.

/HC


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 08-05-2008, 09:44 PM
Andrew Sackville-West
 
Default Benefits (and risks) of using Sid

On Tue, Aug 05, 2008 at 01:00:44PM -0700, Paul Scott wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 05, 2008 at 02:09:34PM +0100, andy wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all
> >>
> >> This is just a general enquiry about the benefits of using Sid on a
> >> desktop or a workstation. Aside from obtaining up-to-the-minute software
> >> (and related patches), are there any other benefits to using Sid? I am
> >> aware of the risks - i.e. frequently broken applications - but to be
> >> honest, how often does this happen?
> >>
> >> Any thoughts (no flames please - I recycled my asbestos suit!!)
> >>
> >
> > I find sid doesn't break that often for me. I can think of maybe two
> > instances in the past three years where I've had a serious enough
> > breakage that I had to stop everything else to solve the problem.
> >
> > Lately though, I've gotten lazy and haven't kept up with the
> > updates. I'm probably running closer to lenny at the moment... If you
> > don't keep up with the updates, you quickly fall *way* behind and have
> > to plan the updates. If you do it every day, it's no big deal... a
> > handful of packages. If you wait a week, you have to stop and think
> > and pay close attention. If you wait a month, set aside a couple of
> > hours in case something get's hosed because you'll be updating
> > hundreds of packages.
> >
> My essential point is to install apt-listbugs as soon as possible and
> use the information it gives to either wait for the problem to be fixed
> or research the problem. I have no idea whether apt-listbugs is part of
> the basic installation.

big second to the use of apt-listbugs!

A
 
Old 08-06-2008, 04:06 AM
Daniel Burrows
 
Default Benefits (and risks) of using Sid

On Tue, Aug 05, 2008 at 03:46:28PM +0100, andy <geek_show@dsl.pipex.com> was heard to say:
> That's a fair point. I currently run stable (Lenny) because it seemed to
> be a good balance between (relatively) up-to-date software that has
> (mostly) had its bugs worked through.

Note that lenny is *not* (yet) stable; you want etch for that.

Daniel


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 08-06-2008, 04:07 AM
Daniel Burrows
 
Default Benefits (and risks) of using Sid

On Tue, Aug 05, 2008 at 01:00:44PM -0700, Paul Scott <pslist@ultrasw.com> was heard to say:
> aptitude makes it easy to "plan the updates"

How so?

Daniel


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 10:54 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org