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Old 12-06-2007, 12:14 AM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 09:17:15AM -0800, David Brodbeck wrote:
>
> On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> >Please don't call this the "Usual Python error recovery problems".
> >Python allows you to trap all the errors it could discover. You just
> >have to wrap everything in a try block. So if you're getting error
> >messages in a stack trace, then call it a bug.
>
> Fair enough. It's just that probably 90% of the Python software I've
> used has had this bug, so I came to assume it was inherent with that
> programming language.

Yeah, I know. I have most problems with GUI apps written in python. So
many potential errors and people don't trap. It comes down to the
programmer's philosophy. They don't do trys and decision trees to get
it to run faster. OTOH, I try to write bomb-proff software. If I want
it to run faster, I rewrite it in Ada, which makes it fairly easy to
write safer software.

Doug.


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Old 12-06-2007, 01:12 AM
Michael Pobega
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:35:46PM -0800, David Brodbeck wrote:
>
> On Dec 5, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Michael Pobega wrote:
>> tar cvvf foo.tar bar | ssh user@dest "cat > foo.tar"
>>
>> Or am I doing it wrong (I most likely am)? I've never done any sort of
>> piping through SSH before, so any sort of help would be appreciated.
>
> You're close. Try this:
>
> tar cvvf - bar | ssh -e none user@dest "cat >foo.tar"
>
> Using - as the filename tells tar to output to stdout. "-e none" disables
> SSH's escape character, making the session fully transparent -- otherwise
> SSH will go into command mode if your tar output happens to contain a line
> that starts with ~.
>

I am not able to test it out now, but I'd like to know if my script will
work.

The lines in question are:

aptitude search "~i!~M" | grep -v "i A" | awk '{print $2}' | ssh -e none $SSHUSER@SSHSERVER "cat >"$TIMEDIR/"aptitude.log"

$TAR -cvvf - /$FILE | ssh -e none SSHUSER@SSHSERVER "cat > "$TIMEDIR/$FILE.tar

--
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs.
- Richard Stallman
 
Old 12-06-2007, 01:22 AM
"s. keeling"
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

Ralph Katz <ralph.katz@rcn.com>:
> On 12/04/2007 05:19 PM, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 04:04:47PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >> On 12/04/07 15:09, Michael Pobega wrote:
> >>> What is d-u's preferred method of backups? Now that I'm running servers
> >>> on my system (Apache, MySQL, SSH, etc.) I need to find a good method of
> >>> backing up, because no matter how much security someone has things may
> >>> still go wrong.
> >>>
> >>> So list your preferred methods of creating/restoring backups and the
> >>> pros and cons. Thanks!
> >> *Much* more information needed.
> >
> > Sorry, I wasn't thinking.

Yeah, that's never happened here before. :-)

> >> How much stuff? 50MB? 5GB? 500GB? 5TB?
> >
> > 80GB HDD. It isn't full, of course, but that's the maximum (Currently
> > about 45 GB)
> >
> >> How compressible is it? Text/MySQL files or MP3s and JPGs?
> >
> > I wouldn't know the answer to that questions.

Text compresses very well. MP3s (?!?) and jpgs are already compressed
(or can't be compressed (much)).

> >> How important is it? Your own stuff, or a business' stuff?
> >
> > It's pretty important; It's my own stuff, it has all of my school work,
> > programming work, pictures, videos, and configuration files on it.
>
> Ron Johnson has asked some really good questions. You may decide to use
> multiple strategies for backup, depending on your various needs.
>
> For etch, I use duplicity, which compresses/encrypts incremental

And for added flavour, add in afio which will do all that duplicity
appears to do. I consider it an upgrade of tar.


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Old 12-06-2007, 02:15 AM
"s. keeling"
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

David Brodbeck <brodbd@u.washington.edu>:
>
> On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > Please don't call this the "Usual Python error recovery problems".
> > Python allows you to trap all the errors it could discover. You just
> > have to wrap everything in a try block. So if you're getting error
> > messages in a stack trace, then call it a bug.
>
> Fair enough. It's just that probably 90% of the Python software I've
> used has had this bug, so I came to assume it was inherent with that
> programming language.

You're not alone wrt python problems. My latest run-in was with
sarplot, which looks like it would be a great tool. It's on
Sourceforge, it ran on Redhat at one time ... The Python manner of
parsing env vars has since changed, and now sarplot is irretrievably
broken, apparently. Damn. Perfectly good software, into the dustbin.


--
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- - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.


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Old 12-06-2007, 02:49 AM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 04:15:43AM +0100, s. keeling wrote:
> David Brodbeck <brodbd@u.washington.edu>:
> >
> > On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > > Please don't call this the "Usual Python error recovery problems".
> > > Python allows you to trap all the errors it could discover. You just
> > > have to wrap everything in a try block. So if you're getting error
> > > messages in a stack trace, then call it a bug.
> >
> > Fair enough. It's just that probably 90% of the Python software I've
> > used has had this bug, so I came to assume it was inherent with that
> > programming language.
>
> You're not alone wrt python problems. My latest run-in was with
> sarplot, which looks like it would be a great tool. It's on
> Sourceforge, it ran on Redhat at one time ... The Python manner of
> parsing env vars has since changed, and now sarplot is irretrievably
> broken, apparently. Damn. Perfectly good software, into the dustbin.
>

It must have been written for one version and subsequent versions don't
work right. Either run it under the old python, or just change the
couple of lines that grab the env vars. You've go the source since
python is a scripting language.

Doug.


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Old 12-06-2007, 02:55 AM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 07:39:28PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:

> Very nice. I'll be trying this when I get home; Although before I
> attempt this I'll probably attempt to install OpenBSD on my other
> laptop -- But that's a whole 'nother story.

Big hint: read the OpenBSD faq from the website (grab it with wget:

wget -c -k -r -p -np -I /faq -X /faq/de,/faq/pf/de,/faq/fr,/faq/pf/fr,/faq/nl,/faq/pf/nl,/faq/pl,/faq/pf/pl,/faq/pt,/faq/pf/pt http://www.openbsd.org/faq/index.html

This limits the recursion to stick to the faq on the website.

Its available as pdf but its not kept as up-to-date.

Of course, the best way to install OpenBSD is to spend the $50 and by a
CD set. You should still read the faq.

The installer acts as a weed-eater: it weeds out users who don't read
the docs. If you don't read, the partioner will kill you. Everything
in the install is text based and quasi command-line. Its small and very
fast once you understand it (full install in about 3 minutes except for
disk I/O time).

If you really like OpenBSD, get the one book on it: Absolute OpenBSD by
Nostarch press.

Doug.


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Old 12-06-2007, 05:54 PM
David Brodbeck
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Dec 5, 2007, at 7:55 PM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

The installer acts as a weed-eater: it weeds out users who don't read
the docs. If you don't read, the partioner will kill you.


At least it doesn't require a pocket calculator anymore. When I
first installed it you had to manually calculate cylinder boundaries!


OpenBSD is fun, secure, and interesting, but they don't make a secret
of being newbie-hostile.



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Old 12-06-2007, 08:43 PM
Paul Cartwright
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Thu December 6 2007, David Brodbeck wrote:
> > The installer acts as a weed-eater: it weeds out users who don't read
> > the docs. *If you don't read, the partioner will kill you.
>
> At least it doesn't require a pocket calculator anymore. *When I *
> first installed it you had to manually calculate cylinder boundaries!
>
> OpenBSD is fun, secure, and interesting, but they don't make a secret *
> of being newbie-hostile

I don't know about newbie hostile, but I would say it is definitely a UNIX
guru environment.. just trying to download was a frustrating 30 minutes.
there was no "*.iso" like 99.999% of the other distros use. Then it took me a
while to figure out if it was even going to install/run an X environment.
Don't even ask about a LiveCD..
and I've installed UNIX from 36 floppy disks!


--
Paul Cartwright
Registered Linux user # 367800
Registered Ubuntu User #12459
 
Old 12-06-2007, 10:29 PM
andy
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

Paul Cartwright wrote:

On Thu December 6 2007, David Brodbeck wrote:


The installer acts as a weed-eater: it weeds out users who don't read
the docs. If you don't read, the partioner will kill you.

At least it doesn't require a pocket calculator anymore. When I
first installed it you had to manually calculate cylinder boundaries!


OpenBSD is fun, secure, and interesting, but they don't make a secret
of being newbie-hostile



I don't know about newbie hostile, but I would say it is definitely a UNIX
guru environment.. just trying to download was a frustrating 30 minutes.
there was no "*.iso" like 99.999% of the other distros use. Then it took me a
while to figure out if it was even going to install/run an X environment.
Don't even ask about a LiveCD..

and I've installed UNIX from 36 floppy disks!



I can't say anything about OBSD as a back-up, but as a firewall it
certainly kicks ass! One version or another has been running under my
desk for a few years' now, just bare bones, no X, and with a pf rule-set
config file guarding my LAN and it just purrs along - low maintenance de
luxe! And resilient, despite power outages and my own cock ups, it just
bounces back. I'm looking to upgrade soon and will probably buy the CD
set to support the team. Small price to pay for rock solid network
security and stability.



A

--

"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." - Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"


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Old 12-06-2007, 10:48 PM
Bill Smith
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

Paul Cartwright wrote:

On Thu December 6 2007, David Brodbeck wrote:


The installer acts as a weed-eater: it weeds out users who don't read
the docs. If you don't read, the partioner will kill you.

At least it doesn't require a pocket calculator anymore. When I
first installed it you had to manually calculate cylinder boundaries!


OpenBSD is fun, secure, and interesting, but they don't make a secret
of being newbie-hostile



I don't know about newbie hostile, but I would say it is definitely a UNIX
guru environment.. just trying to download was a frustrating 30 minutes.
there was no "*.iso" like 99.999% of the other distros use. Then it took me a
while to figure out if it was even going to install/run an X environment.
Don't even ask about a LiveCD..

and I've installed UNIX from 36 floppy disks!



Please do ask about a live cd
quoted from comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc:

I am pleased to announce LiveCD/LiveDVD image updates:

4.2-release for i386 is now available. There is a bug with the XFCE image,
so that is still 4.1.

amd64 architecture will follow within the next few weeks.

www.jggimi.homeip.net


some interesting stuff there








--
Bill


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