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Old 12-05-2007, 12:59 AM
Raquel
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:50:58 -0800
Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 03:30:58PM -0800, Raquel wrote:
> > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:09:12 -0500
> > , Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > What is d-u's preferred method of backups? Now that I'm running
> > > servers on my system (Apache, MySQL, SSH, etc.) I need to find a
> > > good method of backing up, because no matter how much security
> > > someone has things may still go wrong.
> > >
> > > So list your preferred methods of creating/restoring backups
> > > and the pros and cons. Thanks!
> > >
> >
> > That's about like asking, "What's the preferred flavor of ice
> > cream". You're going to get a dozen different answers and then
> > someone will get mad because someone else said that anyone who
> > likes strawberry doesn't know their *$$ from a hole in the ground.
> >
> > Despite that, let me tell you what I use. I have used Bacula
> > several years to back up 6 machines every night.
>
> crikey, Raquel, nobody uses Bacula. At least nobody who knows their
> @ss from a hole in the ground.
>
> ;-P
>
> A
>

See, Michael, it's begun already! ;-0

--
Raquel
================================================== ==========
It is understanding that gives us the ability to have peace. When we
understand the other fellow's viewpoint, and he understands ours,
then we can sit down and work out our differences. --Harry S. Truman


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Old 12-05-2007, 01:12 AM
Ralph Katz
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On 12/04/2007 05:19 PM, Michael Pobega wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 04:04:47PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 12/04/07 15:09, Michael Pobega wrote:
>>> What is d-u's preferred method of backups? Now that I'm running servers
>>> on my system (Apache, MySQL, SSH, etc.) I need to find a good method of
>>> backing up, because no matter how much security someone has things may
>>> still go wrong.
>>>
>>> So list your preferred methods of creating/restoring backups and the
>>> pros and cons. Thanks!
>> *Much* more information needed.
>
>
> Sorry, I wasn't thinking.
>
>> How much stuff? 50MB? 5GB? 500GB? 5TB?
>
>
> 80GB HDD. It isn't full, of course, but that's the maximum (Currently
> about 45 GB)
>
>> How compressible is it? Text/MySQL files or MP3s and JPGs?
>
>
> I wouldn't know the answer to that questions.
>
>> How important is it? Your own stuff, or a business' stuff?
>
>
> It's pretty important; It's my own stuff, it has all of my school work,
> programming work, pictures, videos, and configuration files on it.
>
>> How big of a window do you have to back it up? 30 minutes at 23:15,
>> and you're fired if it goes past midnight? All night between 17:30
>> and 07:30?
>
>
> A weekly night-backup would be my preferred method.
>
>> How often will the lusers will "Michael, this stupid computer ate my
>> work. Bring it back!!" (Meaning, of course, that they
>> stupidly/carelessly deleted/overwrote it.) If it's a database, will
>> the developers want regular copies restored for testing?
>
>
> It's just my own stuff...The odds are probably low of someone deleting
> my work by accident, but better safe than sorry.
>
>> Frequency? Nightly, weekly, every-other-day?
>
>
> Weekly.
>
>> Retention? Keep backups for a month? Quarter? Year? 7 years?
>
>
> I'd probably keep backups for two weeks, so I've have two backups at any
> given time.
>
>> Budget? Always a killer...
>
>
> I have another laptop sitting around with a 60GB HDD; Could I use that
> as a backup?
>
> Otherwise all I have is a 4GB pendrive and no money (But I could get my
> hands on an 80GB External HDD easily)
>
>> As for backing it up, tar. Works like a champ.
>
>
> Just `tar -cvvf backup-`date`.tar /`? Is it really that simple?
>


Ron Johnson has asked some really good questions. You may decide to use
multiple strategies for backup, depending on your various needs.

For etch, I use duplicity, which compresses/encrypts incremental
backups, to back up my desktop (/home and /etc) to both a local and a
remote box via ssh. It's automatic, gpg security, and very easy.
Disadvantage is needing my gpg key and duplicity to restore a total
disaster. Works well for me so far.

Regards,
Ralph


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Old 12-05-2007, 01:29 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On 12/04/07 16:19, Michael Pobega wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 04:04:47PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 12/04/07 15:09, Michael Pobega wrote:
>>> What is d-u's preferred method of backups? Now that I'm running servers
>>> on my system (Apache, MySQL, SSH, etc.) I need to find a good method of
>>> backing up, because no matter how much security someone has things may
>>> still go wrong.
>>>
>>> So list your preferred methods of creating/restoring backups and the
>>> pros and cons. Thanks!
>> *Much* more information needed.
>
>
> Sorry, I wasn't thinking.
>
>> How much stuff? 50MB? 5GB? 500GB? 5TB?
>
>
> 80GB HDD. It isn't full, of course, but that's the maximum (Currently
> about 45 GB)
>
>> How compressible is it? Text/MySQL files or MP3s and JPGs?
>
>
> I wouldn't know the answer to that questions.

MySQL dumps are compressible (unless it's compressed during the dump
phase). Text is compressible. OOo, AbiWord, Gnumeric, etc aren't.

>> How important is it? Your own stuff, or a business' stuff?
>
>
> It's pretty important; It's my own stuff, it has all of my school work,
> programming work, pictures, videos, and configuration files on it.

Pictures and video obviously aren't compressible.

>> How big of a window do you have to back it up? 30 minutes at 23:15,
>> and you're fired if it goes past midnight? All night between 17:30
>> and 07:30?
>
>
> A weekly night-backup would be my preferred method.

Perfectly adequate for home use.

>> How often will the lusers will "Michael, this stupid computer ate my
>> work. Bring it back!!" (Meaning, of course, that they
>> stupidly/carelessly deleted/overwrote it.) If it's a database, will
>> the developers want regular copies restored for testing?
>
>
> It's just my own stuff...The odds are probably low of someone deleting
> my work by accident, but better safe than sorry.

Tar (or rsync) your source trees on an hourly basis to a totally
separate directory. Volatile stuff needs to be saved frequently.

>> Frequency? Nightly, weekly, every-other-day?
>
>
> Weekly.
>
>> Retention? Keep backups for a month? Quarter? Year? 7 years?
>
>
> I'd probably keep backups for two weeks, so I've have two backups at any
> given time.
>
>> Budget? Always a killer...
>
>
> I have another laptop sitting around with a 60GB HDD; Could I use that
> as a backup?
>
> Otherwise all I have is a 4GB pendrive and no money (But I could get my
> hands on an 80GB External HDD easily)

3 weeks till Santa-bot tries to trim the tree with your entrails and
deck the halls with your guts. I'm sure he could hurl an empty
external case or two at you.

>> As for backing it up, tar. Works like a champ.
>
>
> Just `tar -cvvf backup-`date`.tar /`? Is it really that simple?

Plain old "date"? No. I prefer `date +%y%m%d.%H%M`.

Attached is my backup shell script. Modify it for your own
purposes. (Note that my login name is "me", and user "heather" is
out there too.)

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

%SYSTEM-F-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels
 
Old 12-05-2007, 01:14 PM
bruno
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

Michael Pobega wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

What is d-u's preferred method of backups? Now that I'm running servers
on my system (Apache, MySQL, SSH, etc.) I need to find a good method of
backing up, because no matter how much security someone has things may
still go wrong.

So list your preferred methods of creating/restoring backups and the
pros and cons. Thanks!

- --
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative

programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs.
- Richard Stallman

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFHVcH4g6qL2BGnx4QRAq7tAJ49KhZOQNCcjcsk0jqFHV a8DS4cmwCgiWXc
JyDyAiDY1HZ0d8n4xEY2tUM=
=ZBlN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



I use BackupPc. Easy to use, compression, hard linking of unchanged
files => long history on smaller space, easy recovery of individual
files (directly on the server or through tar/zip files), direct access
to any archived file through archive browser.... real-life tested (both
at home and at work)!!!


Possibility to dump to external support like DVD or tape, though I never
tested that part. (I know I should have as real backup should always be
AS EXTERNAL AS POSSIBLE)


Bruno


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Old 12-05-2007, 01:50 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 04:22:42PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 12/04/07 16:01, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > less frequent burn to tiny CD-R to fit in the Bank's Safety Deposit Box.
> >
> > Before I go away anywhere (i.e. out of town), I copy the most important
> > of the backup to a 4 GB USB stick.
> >
> > This means that I have a separate directory called "essential_backup"
> > with a symlink in each user's home directory. They are to place a
> > symlink of any critical data in that directory. That directory is
> > tarred up (following the symlinks) very frequently indeed and propogated
> > to the other box immediatly.
> >
> > The regular stuff is tarred up (tgz) and split to 650 MB size e.g.
> > backup.tgz.aa to fit on CD-Rs.
>
> That's good for personal use (I do something similar, but send it
> off to an external drive), but not adequate for a server.

After that backup.tbz is made, I rsync it to another box. Its the main
box that has the burner.

>
> > If security of the backups is required (other than physical security of
> > the media), then I use openssl to encrypt it with an unencrypted README
> > file, with the commands used to encrypt and decrypt (minus the actual
> > password), included on each backup media.
>
> How do you do that? (I'd have uses gpg.)
>

Just doing a quick look around, gpg is bigger and needs some setup, also
isn't available easily or by default on as many systems.
OpenSSL is dead simple if you've go the binary. Eg: lets say you want
to encrypt with blowfish:

openssl bf -a -e -salt -in file -out file.bf

It prompts for passphrase

To decrypt:

openssl bf -a -d -salt in file.bf -out file





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Old 12-05-2007, 01:52 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 03:22:48PM -0800, David Brodbeck wrote:

> What's your experience with rdiff-backup been? When I tried it I
> found it way too fragile to be a viable backup solution. If the
> backup was interrupted for any reason, it would corrupt the history
> data, and all future backup or restore attempts in that directory
> would cause rdiff-backup to crash. Also, it had the usual Python
> error recovery problems -- whenever an error occurred the actual
> error message was buried somewhere in a gargantuan stack trace.

Please don't call this the "Usual Python error recovery problems".
Python allows you to trap all the errors it could discover. You just
have to wrap everything in a try block. So if you're getting error
messages in a stack trace, then call it a bug.


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Old 12-05-2007, 01:58 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 05:19:48PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:

> I have another laptop sitting around with a 60GB HDD; Could I use that
> as a backup?

Sure. Note, however, that if that's you're only backup, and the only
use for that laptop, that since the drive is small compared to the
source drive, you want to minimize other use of that 60 GB drive.
Debian has a larger footprint than e.g. OpenBSD. I'd install a base
OpenBSD, with only the required install sets. Then install the rsync
package. OBSD base already comes with ssh so you should be set. Put
the backups somewhere under /home (leave the rest of the hier for OBSD)
so you can do upgrades every six months as they come out. Since this
box isn't going to be connected to anything but the source box, you
probably don't have to worry about compiling patches.

The OpenBSD install should fit in a 400 MB partition, with /home on a
partition (slice) that takes up the rest of the drive.

Doug.


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Old 12-05-2007, 02:07 PM
"Larry Irwin"
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

Michael Pobega wrote:

What is d-u's preferred method of backups?


We have 300+ Linux servers in the field that we support.
We use BackupEdge from www.microlite.com
Our tech support staff has handled crashed systems very easily using their
RecoverEdge bare metal recovery utilities since we started using it back in
the days of SCO Xenix...

We have had trouble with Travan type tape drives. (bad spindle design...)
The IOmega REVdrives work well if you stay away from the older/cheaper MB's
that confuse SATA and IDE...
I really like Dell's "REV" version, the RD1000. It's essentially a hotswap
sata drive in a full-height bay. So you can upgrade to a larger backup
medium without replacing the backup device...
And, if you get really large datasets to backup, the SCSI/SAS based LTO tape
drives are available up to 800GB.


Larry



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Old 12-05-2007, 02:37 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 05:19:48PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:

> Just `tar -cvvf backup-`date`.tar /`? Is it really that simple?

You don't need to backup the whole /.

I have a file called backuplist:
/etc/
/usr/local/
/root/
/var/local/
/home/

and I have a file called excludelist:

/var/local/backup
/var/local/unbackedup
/home/dtutty/uldl
/root/uldl

These are both in /usr/local/lib/backup, although they should go in
/etc/ but I wanted to avoid any conflicts with any package I may install
that would have /etc/backup/.

For completeness, here's my whole backup script. This is for my main
box titan. Less complex scripts are run on other boxes. Other scrips
do the rsync. Note that my /home is on a cat lvm while my system
(including /var/local where the backups go) is on lvm over raid1.

Doug.

----


#!/bin/bash
### special to hostname titan
# Backup to /var/local/backup/titan

# backing up directories listed in /usr/local/lib/backup/list
# and excluding those in /usr/local/lib/backup/excludelist
/bin/echo -e "System Backup"
/bin/echo -e "=============
"
/bin/echo -e "First: ensure users have saved essential stuff to ~/essential_backup,"
/bin/echo -e "either as sym-links or actual files; backup will dump links as files."
/bin/echo -e "Examples may be: exporting bookmarks list, special docs, etc."
/bin/echo -e "Backup will then save those to a separate file before"
/bin/echo -e "running the main backup program.
"
/bin/echo -e "
Backup files will be in /var/local/backup/titan/"
/bin/echo -e "and will be done in order of priority to restoring the system."
/bin/echo -e "These can then be copied to media-of-choice.a
"
/bin/echo -e "
Backup takes around 10 minutes.
"
read -p "Press <enter> when ready to continue backup"

/bin/echo -en "
Saving grub menu.lst..."
/bin/cp -af /boot/grub/menu.lst /var/local/backup/titan
/bin/echo -e "Done."

/bin/echo -en "
Saving necessary /etc/files plain text..."
## note: bare-bones recovery from basedebs.tar.gz doesn't have bzip2
## so with entire /etc/ backed up bzip2, need everything that we'
## need prior to and for connecting to the internet available
## in either plain text or gzip.

mkdir -m 0750 /var/local/backup/titan/etc
chown root.adm /var/local/backup/titan/etc

/bin/cp -af /etc/fstab /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/modules /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/hosts /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/hosts.allow /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/hosts.deny /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/inittab /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/network/interfaces /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/hostname /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/modutils/ /var/local/backup/titan/etc/
/bin/rm -rf /var/local/backup/titan/etc/modutils/arch
/bin/cp -af /etc/modprobe.d/ /var/local/backup/titan/etc/
/bin/cp -af /etc/resolv.conf /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/ppp/ /var/local/backup/titan/etc/
/bin/cp -af /etc/chatscripts/ /var/local/backup/titan/etc/

/bin/echo -e "Done."

/bin/echo -en "
Saving the partition table and disk usage information..."
/sbin/fdisk -lu /dev/sda > /var/local/backup/titan/sda_partitions
/sbin/sfdisk -d /dev/sda > /var/local/backup/titan/sda_sfdisk.out
/sbin/fdisk -lu /dev/sdb > /var/local/backup/titan/sdb_partitions
/sbin/sfdisk -d /dev/sdb > /var/local/backup/titan/sdb_sfdisk.out
du -c --si --max-depth=1 /* > /var/local/backup/titan/dusummary 2>/dev/null
df --si > /var/local/backup/titan/dfsummary
/bin/echo -e "Done."

/bin/echo "Saving package selection..."
dpkg --get-selections > /var/local/backup/titan/inst_deb.sel
aptitude search '~i!~M' > /var/local/backup/titan/apt_inst.sel
/bin/echo "Done."


/bin/echo -e "Backing up /root/service/ to /var/local/backup/titan"
/bin/cp -af /root/service/ /var/local/backup/titan/

/bin/echo "Saving etc.tgz.bak"
/bin/cp -af /var/local/backup/titan/etc.tgz /var/local/backup/titan/etc.tgz.bak
/bin/echo -e "Backing up /etc/ to /var/local/backup/titan/etc.tgz"
/bin/tar -czf /var/local/backup/titan/etc.tgz /etc/
/bin/echo -e "Done."
/bin/echo "Removing saved etc.tgz.bak"
/bin/rm -f /var/local/backup/titan/etc.tgz.bak
/bin/echo "Done."

/bin/echo "Saving es_bk.tgz.bak"
/bin/cp -af /var/local/backup/titan/es_bk.tgz /var/local/backup/titan/es_bk.tgz.bak
/bin/echo -e "
Backing up /var/local/essential_backup/ >"
/bin/echo -en " /var/local/backup/titan/es_bk.tgz"
/bin/tar -czhPf /var/local/backup/titan/es_bk.tgz /var/local/essential_backup/
# c=create, -h=don't dump symlinks, but files pointed to
# P=ablsolute path name so they go back exactly where they belong
/bin/echo -e "Done"
/bin/echo "Removing saved es_bk.tgz.bak"
/bin/rm -f /var/local/backup/titan/es_bk.tgz.bak
/bin/echo "Done."

#/bin/echo "Saving backup.tgz.bak"
#/bin/cp -af /var/local/backup/titan/backup.tgz /var/local/backup/titan/backup.tgz.bak
#/bin/echo -e "Backing-up complete system: > /var/local/backup/titan/backup.tgz"
#/bin/tar -czf /var/local/backup/titan/backup.tgz -T /usr/local/lib/backup/backuplist -X /usr/local/lib/backup/excludelist
#/bin/echo "Removing saved backup.tgz.bak"
#/bin/rm -f /var/local/backup/titan/backup.tgz.bak
#/bin/echo "Done."

/bin/echo -e "Backing-up complete system: > /var/local/backup/titan/backup.tgz.XX"
/bin/rm -f /var/local/backup/titan/backup.t*
/bin/tar -cz -T /usr/local/lib/backup/backuplist -X /usr/local/lib/backup/excludelist | split -b 600m - /var/local/backup/titan/backup.tgz.
/bin/echo "Done."

/bin/echo "Saving uldl.tgz.bak"
/bin/cp -af /var/local/backup/titan/uldl.tgz /var/local/backup/titan/uldl.tgz.bak
/bin/echo -e "Backing up /home/dtutty/uldl > /var/local/backup/titan/uldl.tgz"
/bin/tar -czf /var/local/backup/titan/uldl.tgz /home/dtutty/uldl/
/bin/echo "Removing saved uldl.tgz.bak"
/bin/rm -f /var/local/backup/titan/uldl.tgz.bak
/bin/echo "Done."

/bin/echo "Changing oweners and permissions of /var/local/backup/titan"
/bin/chown -R root.adm /var/local/backup/titan/*
/bin/chmod -R o-rwx /var/local/backup/titan/*
/bin/chmod -R g+rw /var/local/backup/titan/*
/bin/echo "Done."

/bin/sync
/bin/echo -e "
Backup finished.
"

/bin/echo -e "Remember to copy to floppy."

# vim: tw=0 :
 
Old 12-05-2007, 04:17 PM
David Brodbeck
 
Default Preferred Backup Method?

On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

Please don't call this the "Usual Python error recovery problems".
Python allows you to trap all the errors it could discover. You just
have to wrap everything in a try block. So if you're getting error
messages in a stack trace, then call it a bug.


Fair enough. It's just that probably 90% of the Python software I've
used has had this bug, so I came to assume it was inherent with that
programming language.



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