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Old 06-22-2008, 01:51 AM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

Am 2008-06-21 10:50:32, schrieb Dotan Cohen:
> 2008/6/21 Jordi Gutirrez Hermoso <jordigh@gmail.com>:
> > On 20/06/2008, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Motivate the people that you know to let the software houses know that
> >> we want their software.
> >
> > And we want it with freedom.
> >
>
> Write to them and tell them that if that is what is important to you.
> I personally would be satisfied paying thousands of dollars for
> Solidworks and not having access to the source code so long as it runs
> on my OS. But if you demand more, than by all means let them know.
> Here is the solidworks contact form:
> http://www.solidworks.com/pages/company/SolidWorksOfficeWorldwide.html
> Note that writing to them requires registration.
>
> Michelle, what is the name of the PCB design software that you prefer
> in Windows? I will look for their address and we will both write to
> them.

Not Windows... The software I use is a 20 years old DOS program which
support Double sided and Double Layer. I had payed over 6000 Deutsche
Mark for it and was running on a Am5x86-133ADZ (486-Overdrive CPU) and
run in a Dos-Box under Fvwm. Unfortunately it does not support the new
Chip-Designs like BGA or chips with a Pin-Width of 0,4mm. :-(

Again: The sofware I need EXIST for Linux, but like VariCAD, such
software cost REAL money. They provide support, you will
never get from a FOSS project.

I am looking for a small intuitiv ${SOFTWARE} to build PCBs
for ARM and MIPS64 CPUs plus 8051 based High-Speed Micro-
Controller. I need per Chip templates (must allow to place
important resistors, capacitors = recommended Design by Chip
manufacturer) and an autorouter.

And of course, must run under GNU/Linux and does not screw
up, if the Workstation is a VIA EPIA LN10000EAG with 1 GHz
and only 1 GByte memory. (the workstation consumes only
14 Watt including a 120 GByte 2"5 SATA drive)

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
 
Old 06-22-2008, 02:23 AM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

Am 2008-06-21 09:22:17, schrieb Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso:
> I think this is rather nearsighted. Although for what I do,
> mathematics, it's easier to argue for openness of the software (a
> mathematical proof must be available and the method disclosed,

Sorry, but I habv my own Enterprise, working alone, outsourceing already
Jobs to India, Russia and Pakistan, have 4 childeren in a Internat which
cost over 3000 €/month and I must live...

I can not wait 5 or 10 years for software development.

I need the software NOW and currenly I have only 1000 € in my pocket.
Maybe I can get a credit from my bank but...

> otherwise, what kind of mathematics are we doing?), I also think it
> should be important to argue for the opennes of engineering software.
> If you buy it, I think you should also be demanding the source code.

For what?
What do you want with a sourcecode of the size of OpenOffice or bigger?
Do you have already decompressed the full sources of OpenOffice.org?

The question is WHY do you want the source code?

I do not know much peoples WHICH can do anything with it except stealing
ideas or such...

VariCAD for example... Tell me a singel BIG FOSS of this quality and
service? (including international standards like ISO, DIN or such)

This IS the reason, WHY I have bought VariCAD for 20.000 € (OK not realy
because I have bought in for a special price on the CeBit) but where is
the FOSS which can create singel objects and then resamle it to a big
thing?

E.g.: I build electonic Hardware for Solar- and Wind-Energie and then
I constuct a haus where I use it, and since I am working on a
project called "Eco City" I have not only one haus but many.
Then I have my BioFuel-Refinery which was designed under VariCAD
and is included in the design of EcoCity... Streets are inductiv
and cars are driving electric and are charged inductiv...

Now tell me where I can get such FOSS...

Oh, VariCAD allow me Real-Time simmulations where I can let drive cars
through the streets and more...

HOW do you want to provide such service with FOSS? And why do you want
the sourcecode for such softwre? The Enterprise, coding and maintaining
such software invest very much money and i am talking about several 100
million Euros in development...

Do you know a FOSS, which can simulate the behaviour of a haus, tower or
a bridge in a Earth-Quake? I have the software! - ...and payed for it.

> Unfortunately, it seems that many people in engineering backgrounds,
> with whom I frequently have to interact, are used to the idea of
> paying thousands of dollars for black boxes, whether it be for
> hardware and instrumentation or software. I think this is a recent

They do not pay for nothing... They pay for Service and Performance

> This modern tendency to eschew source seems nearsighted because I have
> seen this come back to haunt engineers. More than once, I've seen
> their black boxes malfunction on them, the only people with the
> ability to fix them have left the company or are out of business, and

But such things do not happen to programs like VariCAD or professionel
PCB layouting which cost several 10.000 €.

> then they come to us with interesting mathematics of inverse problems
> ("I have the output of this black box, how can we figure out what's
> inside?"). I feel so frustrated with this, because if only they had
> requested for source and documentation when they bought it, something
> that apparently never even crossed their minds, then their newfound
> problems would be trivial.

And then?

They have the Sourcecode change the name and sell it in there name? I
think, OSS or CSS, depends on the "Type of Software" and the Service
behind.

> This is my strongest argument for openness with engineering software,
> from a personal perspective. Duplication of efforts, with many
> companies implementing the same or similar software in their own
> secret ways (NIH syndrome) is another silly thing that happens behind
> copyright laws and non-disclosure agreements and something that
> software freedom can reduce or eliminate.

WHY do you think it is silly? Developing such software cost money in
recherches and services... Why do you want it for free? I call such
peoples suckers...

> I do not know much about PCB software or to what extent these
> arguments apply to your own situation, but my guess is that they also
> do and that having source and the freedoms that come with it would
> also be hugely beneficial and a good long-term strategy.

But again, WHAT DO YOU WANT with a sourcecode where the developers have
invested millions of €?

Note: I have ask MANY peoples about WHY THEY WANT THE SOURCE CODE and
there was not a singel one, which has respond suitable...

The argument "I want to improve the software" does not count,
since no one could tell me what to improve on VariCAD.


Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
 
Old 06-22-2008, 02:28 AM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

Am 2008-06-21 18:39:19, schrieb Michal R. Hoffmann:
> Michelle,
>
> I may be talking rubbish, but I remembered there was a PCB layout design
> tool called Eagle; it was German but I think it had also English
> interface. It worked both in MS Windows and in Linux environment. Not
> sure if this is what you need. I googled their webpage out:
> http://www.cadsoft.de/
> Does it help a bit?

Hmm I do not know currently I will contact them and if they have a free
demo or such... Of course, if it is suitable for relative simpel ARM
and MIPS64 Layouts I will let you know...

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
 
Old 06-22-2008, 07:07 PM
JW
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

On Saturday 21 June 2008 02:50:32 am Dotan Cohen wrote:
> 2008/6/21 Jordi Gutirrez Hermoso <jordigh@gmail.com>:
> > On 20/06/2008, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Motivate the people that you know to let the software houses know that
> >> we want their software.
> >
> > And we want it with freedom.
>
> Write to them and tell them that if that is what is important to you.
> I personally would be satisfied paying thousands of dollars for
> Solidworks and not having access to the source code so long as it runs
> on my OS. But if you demand more, than by all means let them know.

If you're willing to pay thousands of dollars, why don't you find a n existing
FOSS program that's as close as possible to what you need, and pay someone -
rent-a-coder, if all else fails - to make the program do what you want?

JW

--

----------------------
System Administrator - Cedar Creek Software
http://www.cedarcreeksoftware.com


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Old 06-22-2008, 07:53 PM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

2008/6/22 JW <jw@mailsw.com>:
> If you're willing to pay thousands of dollars, why don't you find a n existing
> FOSS program that's as close as possible to what you need, and pay someone -
> rent-a-coder, if all else fails - to make the program do what you want?
>

Because that would take tens of thousands of dollars and would net me
a product that is unmaintained. I am a user, not a developer nor a
PHB.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 
Old 06-23-2008, 06:30 PM
"Jordi Gutirrez Hermoso"
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

On 21/06/2008, Michelle Konzack <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net>
wrote:
> [a long point-by-point reponse to something I wrote]

Michelle, I'm not sure how worthwhile it will be to repeat to you
arguments that I'm sure you have heard endless times before. I could
repeat those arguments, but I doubt you would be interested. You seem
to already be convinced those arguments are daft; that's fine. For
what I do, mathematics, the importance of source is evident: this is
how we do mathematics, sharing proof, method, and internals, this is
what mathematics *is*.

Engineers don't think this way, which is troubling, because engineers
often do mathematics too, and then I have to interface with their
habits that make my own job that much more difficult. My job is to
understand things, to improve them, and to explain to others how and
why things work. This is what a mathematician does. Lack of source and
legal hurdles to sharing knowledge are all obstacles for my job.

Money is not the issue. You keep alluding about how I want everything
gratis; this was never my claim. Source could very well be distributed
with money and you know that many companies do this now, just as many
other companies always did this before when computers were first
created. I am unconvinced that it's impossible to do so now.

NIH is a Mexican standoff[1]. All these companies holding lawsuits to
each other like double-barreled guns, reimplementing the same thing
over and over again, guarding their precious "intellectual property"
because they spent money on developing, and even if they're going to
make money using it internally, god forbid that another company
should have access to the same code that wouldn't cost them anything
to share.

I don't feel compelled to continue this argument... You seem to see
everything in terms of immediate results and money, both of which I
insist are nearsighted. As a whole, as a society, we would all be
better off in the long run without these obstacles to dissemination of
knowledge.

Best,
- Jordi G. H.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_standoff


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Old 06-23-2008, 06:42 PM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

2008/6/23 Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <jordigh@gmail.com>:
> On 21/06/2008, Michelle Konzack <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net>
> wrote:
>> [a long point-by-point reponse to something I wrote]
>
> Michelle, I'm not sure how worthwhile it will be to repeat to you
> arguments that I'm sure you have heard endless times before. I could
> repeat those arguments, but I doubt you would be interested. You seem
> to already be convinced those arguments are daft; that's fine. For
> what I do, mathematics, the importance of source is evident: this is
> how we do mathematics, sharing proof, method, and internals, this is
> what mathematics *is*.

I also agree that for mathematical work, open source and understanding
the way answers were arrived at are important. For engineers, it is
only the practality that is important. That, and the ability to
interoperate with our coworkers who don't care about open sores.

> Engineers don't think this way, which is troubling, because engineers
> often do mathematics too, and then I have to interface with their
> habits that make my own job that much more difficult. My job is to
> understand things, to improve them, and to explain to others how and
> why things work. This is what a mathematician does. Lack of source and
> legal hurdles to sharing knowledge are all obstacles for my job.

That is why we leave it to you! But tell me the truth, Jordi, would
you really take apart the source code of Solidworks to help you
understand the diagram that I made? Not that you _could_ (which I know
is important to mathematicians) but that you _would_.

> Money is not the issue. You keep alluding about how I want everything
> gratis; this was never my claim. Source could very well be distributed
> with money and you know that many companies do this now, just as many
> other companies always did this before when computers were first
> created. I am unconvinced that it's impossible to do so now.

I always donate the the projects that I use. I bet I could have saved
hundreds of shekels, not to mention hours, had I simply gotten all my
software from Microsoft. Price is not the issue for me either.

> I don't feel compelled to continue this argument... You seem to see
> everything in terms of immediate results and money, both of which I
> insist are nearsighted.

Nearsighted, yes, just like a hungry child is nearsighted and will do
what it takes to eat NOW. Because that is the situation that we are
in, and I have two hungry children at home. Well, the second is on the
way, so wish me and the missus luck.

> As a whole, as a society, we would all be
> better off in the long run without these obstacles to dissemination of
> knowledge.
>

While I do agree with you, I will not let me family starve today for that goal.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 
Old 06-23-2008, 08:07 PM
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

> Am 2008-06-21 09:22:17, schrieb Jordi Gutirrez Hermoso:
>> I think this is rather nearsighted. Although for what I do,
>> mathematics, it's easier to argue for openness of the software (a
>> mathematical proof must be available and the method disclosed,
>
> Sorry, but I habv my own Enterprise, working alone, outsourceing already
> Jobs to India, Russia and Pakistan, have 4 childeren in a Internat which
> cost over 3000 /month and I must live...
>
> I can not wait 5 or 10 years for software development.
>
> I need the software NOW and currenly I have only 1000 in my pocket.
> Maybe I can get a credit from my bank but...
>
>> otherwise, what kind of mathematics are we doing?), I also think it
>> should be important to argue for the opennes of engineering software.
>> If you buy it, I think you should also be demanding the source code.
>
> For what?
> What do you want with a sourcecode of the size of OpenOffice or bigger?
> Do you have already decompressed the full sources of OpenOffice.org?
>
> The question is WHY do you want the source code?
>
> I do not know much peoples WHICH can do anything with it except stealing
> ideas or such...
>
> VariCAD for example... Tell me a singel BIG FOSS of this quality and
> service? (including international standards like ISO, DIN or such)
>
> This IS the reason, WHY I have bought VariCAD for 20.000 (OK not realy
> because I have bought in for a special price on the CeBit) but where is
> the FOSS which can create singel objects and then resamle it to a big
> thing?
>
> E.g.: I build electonic Hardware for Solar- and Wind-Energie and then
> I constuct a haus where I use it, and since I am working on a
> project called "Eco City" I have not only one haus but many.
> Then I have my BioFuel-Refinery which was designed under VariCAD
> and is included in the design of EcoCity... Streets are inductiv
> and cars are driving electric and are charged inductiv...
>
> Now tell me where I can get such FOSS...
>
> Oh, VariCAD allow me Real-Time simmulations where I can let drive cars
> through the streets and more...
>
> HOW do you want to provide such service with FOSS? And why do you want
> the sourcecode for such softwre? The Enterprise, coding and maintaining
> such software invest very much money and i am talking about several 100
> million Euros in development...
>
> Do you know a FOSS, which can simulate the behaviour of a haus, tower or
> a bridge in a Earth-Quake? I have the software! - ...and payed for it.
>
>> Unfortunately, it seems that many people in engineering backgrounds,
>> with whom I frequently have to interact, are used to the idea of
>> paying thousands of dollars for black boxes, whether it be for
>> hardware and instrumentation or software. I think this is a recent
>
> They do not pay for nothing... They pay for Service and Performance
>
>> This modern tendency to eschew source seems nearsighted because I have
>> seen this come back to haunt engineers. More than once, I've seen
>> their black boxes malfunction on them, the only people with the
>> ability to fix them have left the company or are out of business, and
>
> But such things do not happen to programs like VariCAD or professionel
> PCB layouting which cost several 10.000 .
>
>> then they come to us with interesting mathematics of inverse problems
>> ("I have the output of this black box, how can we figure out what's
>> inside?"). I feel so frustrated with this, because if only they had
>> requested for source and documentation when they bought it, something
>> that apparently never even crossed their minds, then their newfound
>> problems would be trivial.
>
> And then?
>
> They have the Sourcecode change the name and sell it in there name? I
> think, OSS or CSS, depends on the "Type of Software" and the Service
> behind.
>
>> This is my strongest argument for openness with engineering software,
>> from a personal perspective. Duplication of efforts, with many
>> companies implementing the same or similar software in their own
>> secret ways (NIH syndrome) is another silly thing that happens behind
>> copyright laws and non-disclosure agreements and something that
>> software freedom can reduce or eliminate.
>
> WHY do you think it is silly? Developing such software cost money in
> recherches and services... Why do you want it for free? I call such
> peoples suckers...
>
>> I do not know much about PCB software or to what extent these
>> arguments apply to your own situation, but my guess is that they also
>> do and that having source and the freedoms that come with it would
>> also be hugely beneficial and a good long-term strategy.
>
> But again, WHAT DO YOU WANT with a sourcecode where the developers have
> invested millions of ?
>
> Note: I have ask MANY peoples about WHY THEY WANT THE SOURCE CODE and
> there was not a singel one, which has respond suitable...
>
> The argument "I want to improve the software" does not count,
> since no one could tell me what to improve on VariCAD.
>
>
> Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
> Michelle Konzack
> Systemadministrator
> 24V Electronic Engineer
> Tamay Dogan Network
> Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
>
>
> --
> Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
> ##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
> Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
> +49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
> +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)

Michelle
I have run several hardware/software shops and for me the only rational
arguement for source code is "what will I as a user do if the company goes
"belly up" or stops supporting the product. The only pragmatic solution
that I was able to work out was an escrow arrangement whereby the
developer placed the most current version of source code and documentation
with a third party (e.g. a bank). The developer owned that source code
and I was not allowed to access it unless the developer either stopped
doing business, stopped supporting the software, or failed to meet stated
obligations (e.g. failed to fix a major bug in some reasonable time). I
have negotiated several of these agreements and not once have I had to
exercise the escrow agreement and gain access to the software; however,
the existance of such an agreement gave my company peace of mind.
Larry
>



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Old 06-23-2008, 08:17 PM
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

> Am 2008-06-21 09:22:17, schrieb Jordi Gutirrez Hermoso:
>> I think this is rather nearsighted. Although for what I do,
>> mathematics, it's easier to argue for openness of the software (a
>> mathematical proof must be available and the method disclosed,
>
> Sorry, but I habv my own Enterprise, working alone, outsourceing already
> Jobs to India, Russia and Pakistan, have 4 childeren in a Internat which
> cost over 3000 /month and I must live...
>
> I can not wait 5 or 10 years for software development.
>
> I need the software NOW and currenly I have only 1000 in my pocket.
> Maybe I can get a credit from my bank but...
>
>> otherwise, what kind of mathematics are we doing?), I also think it
>> should be important to argue for the opennes of engineering software.
>> If you buy it, I think you should also be demanding the source code.
>
> For what?
> What do you want with a sourcecode of the size of OpenOffice or bigger?
> Do you have already decompressed the full sources of OpenOffice.org?
>
> The question is WHY do you want the source code?
>
> I do not know much peoples WHICH can do anything with it except stealing
> ideas or such...
>
> VariCAD for example... Tell me a singel BIG FOSS of this quality and
> service? (including international standards like ISO, DIN or such)
>
> This IS the reason, WHY I have bought VariCAD for 20.000 (OK not realy
> because I have bought in for a special price on the CeBit) but where is
> the FOSS which can create singel objects and then resamle it to a big
> thing?
>
> E.g.: I build electonic Hardware for Solar- and Wind-Energie and then
> I constuct a haus where I use it, and since I am working on a
> project called "Eco City" I have not only one haus but many.
> Then I have my BioFuel-Refinery which was designed under VariCAD
> and is included in the design of EcoCity... Streets are inductiv
> and cars are driving electric and are charged inductiv...
>
> Now tell me where I can get such FOSS...
>
> Oh, VariCAD allow me Real-Time simmulations where I can let drive cars
> through the streets and more...
>
> HOW do you want to provide such service with FOSS? And why do you want
> the sourcecode for such softwre? The Enterprise, coding and maintaining
> such software invest very much money and i am talking about several 100
> million Euros in development...
>
> Do you know a FOSS, which can simulate the behaviour of a haus, tower or
> a bridge in a Earth-Quake? I have the software! - ...and payed for it.
>
>> Unfortunately, it seems that many people in engineering backgrounds,
>> with whom I frequently have to interact, are used to the idea of
>> paying thousands of dollars for black boxes, whether it be for
>> hardware and instrumentation or software. I think this is a recent
>
> They do not pay for nothing... They pay for Service and Performance
>
>> This modern tendency to eschew source seems nearsighted because I have
>> seen this come back to haunt engineers. More than once, I've seen
>> their black boxes malfunction on them, the only people with the
>> ability to fix them have left the company or are out of business, and
>
> But such things do not happen to programs like VariCAD or professionel
> PCB layouting which cost several 10.000 .
>
>> then they come to us with interesting mathematics of inverse problems
>> ("I have the output of this black box, how can we figure out what's
>> inside?"). I feel so frustrated with this, because if only they had
>> requested for source and documentation when they bought it, something
>> that apparently never even crossed their minds, then their newfound
>> problems would be trivial.
>
> And then?
>
> They have the Sourcecode change the name and sell it in there name? I
> think, OSS or CSS, depends on the "Type of Software" and the Service
> behind.
>
>> This is my strongest argument for openness with engineering software,
>> from a personal perspective. Duplication of efforts, with many
>> companies implementing the same or similar software in their own
>> secret ways (NIH syndrome) is another silly thing that happens behind
>> copyright laws and non-disclosure agreements and something that
>> software freedom can reduce or eliminate.
>
> WHY do you think it is silly? Developing such software cost money in
> recherches and services... Why do you want it for free? I call such
> peoples suckers...
>
>> I do not know much about PCB software or to what extent these
>> arguments apply to your own situation, but my guess is that they also
>> do and that having source and the freedoms that come with it would
>> also be hugely beneficial and a good long-term strategy.
>
> But again, WHAT DO YOU WANT with a sourcecode where the developers have
> invested millions of ?
>
> Note: I have ask MANY peoples about WHY THEY WANT THE SOURCE CODE and
> there was not a singel one, which has respond suitable...
>
> The argument "I want to improve the software" does not count,
> since no one could tell me what to improve on VariCAD.
>
>
> Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
> Michelle Konzack
> Systemadministrator
> 24V Electronic Engineer
> Tamay Dogan Network
> Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
>
>
> --
> Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
> ##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
> Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
> +49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
> +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)

Michelle
Here's the link to the Eagle suite
Larry
www.electronics-lab.com/downloads/pcb/index.html
>



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Old 06-23-2008, 08:31 PM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

2008/6/23 <owens@peak.org>:
> Michelle
> I have run several hardware/software shops and for me the only rational
> arguement for source code is "what will I as a user do if the company goes
> "belly up" or stops supporting the product. The only pragmatic solution
> that I was able to work out was an escrow arrangement whereby the
> developer placed the most current version of source code and documentation
> with a third party (e.g. a bank). The developer owned that source code
> and I was not allowed to access it unless the developer either stopped
> doing business, stopped supporting the software, or failed to meet stated
> obligations (e.g. failed to fix a major bug in some reasonable time). I
> have negotiated several of these agreements and not once have I had to
> exercise the escrow agreement and gain access to the software; however,
> the existance of such an agreement gave my company peace of mind.
> Larry

I'd just like to pipe up that should AutoCAD or Solidworks go belly up
and stop supporting the software, my own problems regarding the
software will be trivial compared to the industry upheaval.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 

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