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Old 06-20-2008, 07:56 PM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

2008/6/20 <owens@peak.org>:
>> Did you write to the companies that provide the cheaper, XP-based
>> solutions and tell them that you are interested in buying their
>> software, but that you need a native Linux version? If we don't get
>> off our butts and tell the companies that we exist, then we have no
>> basis to complain when there is no suitable software available for
>> Linux.
>>
>> To FOSS developers: Solidworks is the de-facto CAD software used in my
>> country. Everybody uses it. I will donate to any project TWICE THE
>> COST of a Solidworks license that develops and maintains a
>> Solidworks-compatible alternative, for as long as I'm using the
>> software. Solidworks-compatible means that I develop and can exchange
>> documents with other Solidworks users with NO EXCUSES. I'm certain
>> that you will find many other idiots like me who would be willing to
>> donate similar sums.
>>
>> In the meantime, I write to Solid and request them to release a Linux
>> version. I'm currently running an older version in VirtualBox because
>> I have no choice (well, I _could_ run XP).
>>
>> Dotan Cohen
>>
>> http://what-is-what.com
>> http://gibberish.co.il
>> א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
>>
>> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
>> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
>
> Dotan
> I think the OP is looking for a PCB CAD package. If I recall neither
> Solidworks nor VariCAD does this.
> Larry
>>
>

My comment was more generally discussing the fact that many people are
looking for software instead of asking for it. I have never needed to
do PCB but I doubt that Solidworks handles that. Regardless, the OP
(Michelle) did find suitable, affordable software for his purpose that
ran on a different OS. He should write to the developer and express
interest in a Linux port of the software.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 
Old 06-20-2008, 08:45 PM
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

> 2008/6/20 <owens@peak.org>:
>>> Did you write to the companies that provide the cheaper, XP-based
>>> solutions and tell them that you are interested in buying their
>>> software, but that you need a native Linux version? If we don't get
>>> off our butts and tell the companies that we exist, then we have no
>>> basis to complain when there is no suitable software available for
>>> Linux.
>>>
>>> To FOSS developers: Solidworks is the de-facto CAD software used in my
>>> country. Everybody uses it. I will donate to any project TWICE THE
>>> COST of a Solidworks license that develops and maintains a
>>> Solidworks-compatible alternative, for as long as I'm using the
>>> software. Solidworks-compatible means that I develop and can exchange
>>> documents with other Solidworks users with NO EXCUSES. I'm certain
>>> that you will find many other idiots like me who would be willing to
>>> donate similar sums.
>>>
>>> In the meantime, I write to Solid and request them to release a Linux
>>> version. I'm currently running an older version in VirtualBox because
>>> I have no choice (well, I _could_ run XP).
>>>
>>> Dotan Cohen
>>>
>>> http://what-is-what.com
>>> http://gibberish.co.il
>>> ?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
>>>
>>> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
>>> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
>>
>> Dotan
>> I think the OP is looking for a PCB CAD package. If I recall neither
>> Solidworks nor VariCAD does this.
>> Larry
>>>
>>
>
> My comment was more generally discussing the fact that many people are
> looking for software instead of asking for it. I have never needed to
> do PCB but I doubt that Solidworks handles that. Regardless, the OP
> (Michelle) did find suitable, affordable software for his purpose that
> ran on a different OS. He should write to the developer and express
> interest in a Linux port of the software.
>
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://what-is-what.com
> http://gibberish.co.il
> ?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
>
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
>
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately Michelle said that she needed the
software "now".
L



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Old 06-20-2008, 08:57 PM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

2008/6/20 <owens@peak.org>:
> Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately Michelle said that she needed the
> software "now".
> L
>

I was speaking in the general sense. Even if the company in question
cannot produce a 'today' solution, Michelle and others will benefit
from a 'next version' solution. The narrow-view of "it won't be now so
why bother" is exactly the reason that we are using an OS with 15
years of solid development in the kernel, yet relatively few
professional-grade third-party (non FSA || GNU) applications
available.

Motivate the people that you know to let the software houses know that
we want their software.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 
Old 06-20-2008, 10:24 PM
"Jordi Gutirrez Hermoso"
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

On 20/06/2008, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Motivate the people that you know to let the software houses know that
> we want their software.

And we want it with freedom.

- Jordi G. H.


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Old 06-20-2008, 10:27 PM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

Am 2008-06-20 10:56:21, schrieb owens@peak.org:
> Michelle
> Yes I assume your reference to PCBs was Printed Circuit Boards (yes?). If
> so I have another approach, a "hybrid" solution used by many small to
> medium size companies, especially those that don't do PCB layout on a
> regular basis and/or do not do the actual PCB fabrication. Contact a PCB
> company that does board layout and fabrication to do just the layout part
> (this is the most labor-intensive part of the process). Tell them you
> wish to do the schematic capture part and they will likely furnish you (or
> allow access to) their PCB software. In this manner you can do the
> capture (and design rules check and perhaps simulation, each of which is
> usually "built-in" to the capture package) and they can do the layout and
> fabrication.
> Larry

This is no option for me...
Costs much money and is NOT flexible enough.

Also I have already bought the "Auyoue 720" InfraRed Wellding System
which is a reworkstation but now I am looking for used "Auyoue 9000".

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
 
Old 06-20-2008, 10:42 PM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

Hi Al Davis.

Am 2008-06-18 18:22:48, schrieb al davis:
> Sorry if I sound overbearing here .. I am working on a project
> (very close to geda) which is now "half working" and realize
> how little things like this impact progress on a project.

For PCB-Layout? If posible let me know about it.

Note 1: When I had more money as now, I had already sponsored
some Projects with a little bit bigger sum since the
"commercial" software was incompatibel with my needs...

Note 2: I am owning professionel software for a value of over
100.000€ and I need it sinnce for example VariCad, you
can design a Truck or a Haus and then you can put it
in "ind simulator"... There is no FOSS which can beat
this. Also I am constructing a WHOLE EcoCity with
VariCad and now I need a PCB layout program but for
less then 1000€ since I have finacial problems...
(Get money for the project)

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
 
Old 06-21-2008, 07:50 AM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

2008/6/21 Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <jordigh@gmail.com>:
> On 20/06/2008, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Motivate the people that you know to let the software houses know that
>> we want their software.
>
> And we want it with freedom.
>

Write to them and tell them that if that is what is important to you.
I personally would be satisfied paying thousands of dollars for
Solidworks and not having access to the source code so long as it runs
on my OS. But if you demand more, than by all means let them know.
Here is the solidworks contact form:
http://www.solidworks.com/pages/company/SolidWorksOfficeWorldwide.html
Note that writing to them requires registration.

Michelle, what is the name of the PCB design software that you prefer
in Windows? I will look for their address and we will both write to
them.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 
Old 06-21-2008, 02:22 PM
"Jordi Gutirrez Hermoso"
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

On 21/06/2008, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I personally would be satisfied paying thousands of dollars for
> Solidworks and not having access to the source code so long as it runs
> on my OS.

I think this is rather nearsighted. Although for what I do,
mathematics, it's easier to argue for openness of the software (a
mathematical proof must be available and the method disclosed,
otherwise, what kind of mathematics are we doing?), I also think it
should be important to argue for the opennes of engineering software.
If you buy it, I think you should also be demanding the source code.

Unfortunately, it seems that many people in engineering backgrounds,
with whom I frequently have to interact, are used to the idea of
paying thousands of dollars for black boxes, whether it be for
hardware and instrumentation or software. I think this is a recent
practice, but I'm not sure. I have heard it said that in times of yore
before companies realised that copyright laws could be used to
restrict their software, it was standard practice to provide source to
your customers, since the software was just the icing on the cake to
whatever else they had purchased from you.

This modern tendency to eschew source seems nearsighted because I have
seen this come back to haunt engineers. More than once, I've seen
their black boxes malfunction on them, the only people with the
ability to fix them have left the company or are out of business, and
then they come to us with interesting mathematics of inverse problems
("I have the output of this black box, how can we figure out what's
inside?"). I feel so frustrated with this, because if only they had
requested for source and documentation when they bought it, something
that apparently never even crossed their minds, then their newfound
problems would be trivial.

This is my strongest argument for openness with engineering software,
from a personal perspective. Duplication of efforts, with many
companies implementing the same or similar software in their own
secret ways (NIH syndrome) is another silly thing that happens behind
copyright laws and non-disclosure agreements and something that
software freedom can reduce or eliminate.

I think you too should care about these things. I have a vested
interest in you caring about these things, because attitudes from
people like you not caring end up spreading to others close to my
field of endeavour, and then we get results as insulting as this one,
a tutorial telling us why we're too dumb to understand their complex
internals:

http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/tutorial/WhyYouDoNotUsuallyNeedToKnowAboutInternals.html

I do not know much about PCB software or to what extent these
arguments apply to your own situation, but my guess is that they also
do and that having source and the freedoms that come with it would
also be hugely beneficial and a good long-term strategy.

Dixi,
- Jordi G. H.


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Old 06-21-2008, 05:39 PM
"Michal R. Hoffmann"
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

Michelle,

I may be talking rubbish, but I remembered there was a PCB layout design
tool called Eagle; it was German but I think it had also English
interface. It worked both in MS Windows and in Linux environment. Not
sure if this is what you need. I googled their webpage out:
http://www.cadsoft.de/

Does it help a bit?

--
Kind regards,
Michal R. Hoffmann


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Old 06-22-2008, 01:36 AM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default CAD software for PCB engineering and routing

Am 2008-06-20 23:57:27, schrieb Dotan Cohen:
> I was speaking in the general sense. Even if the company in question
> cannot produce a 'today' solution, Michelle and others will benefit
> from a 'next version' solution. The narrow-view of "it won't be now so
> why bother" is exactly the reason that we are using an OS with 15
> years of solid development in the kernel, yet relatively few
> professional-grade third-party (non FSA || GNU) applications
> available.

The Software I like to use is ALready under Linux... And it works with
Debian, BUT currently I have NOT THE MONEY to spend 8000 Euro for such
program which can do a little bit more then the design for a ARM, MIPS
or 8050/51 compatible High-Speed Controller. Such CPUs/µControllers
are absolutly genial in design and the PCBs are easy to build.

My timeframe is to small and my money to less (<1000€)

I need a solution which can help ne NOW to build the PCBs for

1) 24V DC Modular ATX PSU (DS87C...)
2) High-Performance Solarcharger (AM91SAM)
3) Modular Pb-Gel Batterie Charger/Distributor (AM91SAM)
4) Industrial Table-PC (ARM1176JZF-S with 600MHz + PNX6712 +
AR1511 + AR5413)
5) Low-Energie Workstation (MIPS64 with 800 MHz).

So, no big things, but the Job must be done...

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
 

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