FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 06-14-2008, 07:26 PM
"Damon L. Chesser"
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Sat, 2008-06-14 at 11:24 -0700, Kenward Vaughan wrote:
> We are in the same position, and need a quick solution. I'm looking at
> Newegg's Lenovo Thinkpads (R61i and T61) at <$1K and the Dell
> Vostro/Latitude D630 choices at the $600/850 levels.
>
> Costco has some HP's as well, roughly the same level.
>
> The $$ is fine across the board--I wanted quick feelings about the
> models... are thinkpads simply superior build-wise and so are the best
> choice, or...?
>
> I recognize that this could start a flameware--it's not the intent,
> though. Honest thoughts are welcome.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Kenward
> --
IMHO, thinkpads have a long history of supporting linux (or rather that
linux works on them) and many really like it. OTOH, the Vostro is also
a box fully supported (watch what wireless you get) and the Latitude is
of similar build, but beefer. I do not think any of these three are bad
choices. I have never owned a thinkpad and would not due to the owners
of the company. This is a personal choice and you are free to disagree
with that stance, but it does support the use of linux.
>
--
Damon L. Chesser
damon@damtek.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dchesser
 
Old 06-15-2008, 08:27 AM
Anthony Campbell
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On 14 Jun 2008, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 03:26:26PM -0400, Damon L. Chesser wrote:
> > IMHO, thinkpads have a long history of supporting linux (or rather that
> > linux works on them) and many really like it. OTOH, the Vostro is also
> > a box fully supported (watch what wireless you get) and the Latitude is
> > of similar build, but beefer. I do not think any of these three are bad
> > choices. I have never owned a thinkpad and would not due to the owners
> > of the company. This is a personal choice and you are free to disagree
> > with that stance, but it does support the use of linux.
>
> By owners of the company, do you mean Lenovo or their predecessor IBM?
> I haven't seen a Lenovo Thinkpad. I do have an IBM Thinkpad; the screen
> died when the tent in which I was sitting was hit by lightening (at
> least I had metal poles) but at least I was able to retreive the data
> off the hard drive.
>
> Doug.
>

I have a Thinkpad Z61M. It's very well made and feels solid. Both the
display (Ati) and the Intel wireless have caused compatibility problems,
however. At present the display is fine in 2D using the radeonhd driver
but I don't have 3D, though I had it in the past with fglrx. I'm not too
much bothered about this, although Googleearth is a bit jerky.

Wireless works with th old ipw3945 stuff but I have never managed to get
iwlwifi to do anything, so I can't use a later kernel than 2.6.23,

Anthony

--
Anthony Campbell - ac@acampbell.org.uk
Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews,
and sceptical articles)


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 06-15-2008, 12:41 PM
Anthony Campbell
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On 15 Jun 2008, Lee Glidewell wrote:
> On Sunday 15 June 2008 01:27:14 am Anthony Campbell wrote:
> > <snip>
> > Wireless works with th old ipw3945 stuff but I have never managed to get
> > iwlwifi to do anything, so I can't use a later kernel than 2.6.23,
>
> Well, it Works For Me(tm). The procedure for getting iwlwifi up and running is
> slightly different from the older driver, but it definitely works (with a few
> known bugs, admittedly, such as poor LED indicator support).
>
> I would never choose a wifi chip other than Intel, so I want to say both 1) it
> shouldn't present compatibility problems, and 2) encourage anyone who's had
> such problems to post them here, along with what they've done, so that if
> these *are* serious problems, I can stop suggesting Intel wifi. Because
> otherwise, I plan to suggest that.
>

Yes, I know others have found it worked, and probably I have been doing
something very silly. But I've followed all the docs as conscientiously
as I can, without success. The Intellinux wireless org site says, in
bold letters:

NOTE: The iwlwifi driver is experimental and may not work for you. YMMV.


I'll probably try again at some stage.

Anthony


--
Anthony Campbell - ac@acampbell.org.uk
Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews,
and sceptical articles)


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 06-15-2008, 02:11 PM
"Damon L. Chesser"
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Sat, 2008-06-14 at 21:43 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 03:26:26PM -0400, Damon L. Chesser wrote:
> > IMHO, thinkpads have a long history of supporting linux (or rather that
> > linux works on them) and many really like it. OTOH, the Vostro is also
> > a box fully supported (watch what wireless you get) and the Latitude is
> > of similar build, but beefer. I do not think any of these three are bad
> > choices. I have never owned a thinkpad and would not due to the owners
> > of the company. This is a personal choice and you are free to disagree
> > with that stance, but it does support the use of linux.
>
> By owners of the company, do you mean Lenovo or their predecessor IBM?
> I haven't seen a Lenovo Thinkpad. I do have an IBM Thinkpad; the screen
> died when the tent in which I was sitting was hit by lightening (at
> least I had metal poles) but at least I was able to retreive the data
> off the hard drive.
>
> Doug.

Doug,

By owners I mean Communist China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo
>
>
--
Damon L. Chesser
damon@damtek.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dchesser
 
Old 06-15-2008, 04:16 PM
Andrew Sackville-West
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 01:41:53PM +0100, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> On 15 Jun 2008, Lee Glidewell wrote:
> > On Sunday 15 June 2008 01:27:14 am Anthony Campbell wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > Wireless works with th old ipw3945 stuff but I have never managed to get
> > > iwlwifi to do anything, so I can't use a later kernel than 2.6.23,
> >
> > Well, it Works For Me(tm). The procedure for getting iwlwifi up and running is
> > slightly different from the older driver, but it definitely works (with a few
> > known bugs, admittedly, such as poor LED indicator support).
> >
> > I would never choose a wifi chip other than Intel, so I want to say both 1) it
> > shouldn't present compatibility problems, and 2) encourage anyone who's had
> > such problems to post them here, along with what they've done, so that if
> > these *are* serious problems, I can stop suggesting Intel wifi. Because
> > otherwise, I plan to suggest that.
> >
>
> Yes, I know others have found it worked, and probably I have been doing
> something very silly. But I've followed all the docs as conscientiously
> as I can, without success. The Intellinux wireless org site says, in
> bold letters:
>
> NOTE: The iwlwifi driver is experimental and may not work for you. YMMV.
>
>
> I'll probably try again at some stage.

when did you last try? Mine still works, though it's definitely a
little buggy getting it to associate. I haven't upgraded the lappy in
a while though, so maybe it's better. Currently, to get it to
associate I have to run through the following hoops...

ifup wlan0
# can't do anything without upping the thing

iwlist wlan0 scan
# will perform a scan (can you get this part to work?)

iwconfig wlan0 essid <essid of choice>

and then various permutations of

iwconfig wlan0 channel <chan #>
iwconfig wlan0 ap off
iwconfig wlan0 ap <MAC of desired ap>

all while watching

tail -f /var/log/syslog

in another terminal until I get the (paraphrased) message:

NETDEV: wlan0 comes ready

or something like that.

I've tried to script this, but it just doesn't work reliably, which is
frustrating. It seems that the driver doesn't actually do what it
claims with regard to the 'ap off' command. It usually just tries to
associate with the last ap, even if that ap is 100 miles away.

its frustrating, but does work. And once it comes up, it works great.

hth.

A
 
Old 06-15-2008, 05:00 PM
Anthony Campbell
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On 15 Jun 2008, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > Yes, I know others have found it worked, and probably I have been doing
> > something very silly. But I've followed all the docs as conscientiously
> > as I can, without success. The Intellinux wireless org site says, in
> > bold letters:
> >
> > NOTE: The iwlwifi driver is experimental and may not work for you. YMMV.
> >
> >
> > I'll probably try again at some stage.
>
> when did you last try? Mine still works, though it's definitely a
> little buggy getting it to associate. I haven't upgraded the lappy in
> a while though, so maybe it's better. Currently, to get it to
> associate I have to run through the following hoops...
>
> ifup wlan0
> # can't do anything without upping the thing
>
> iwlist wlan0 scan
> # will perform a scan (can you get this part to work?)
>
> iwconfig wlan0 essid <essid of choice>
>
> and then various permutations of
>
> iwconfig wlan0 channel <chan #>
> iwconfig wlan0 ap off
> iwconfig wlan0 ap <MAC of desired ap>
>
> all while watching
>
> tail -f /var/log/syslog
>
> in another terminal until I get the (paraphrased) message:
>
> NETDEV: wlan0 comes ready
>
> or something like that.
>
> I've tried to script this, but it just doesn't work reliably, which is
> frustrating. It seems that the driver doesn't actually do what it
> claims with regard to the 'ap off' command. It usually just tries to
> associate with the last ap, even if that ap is 100 miles away.
>
> its frustrating, but does work. And once it comes up, it works great.
>
> hth.
>
> A


Is there really any point in doing all this? Using the old system on a
2.6.23 kernel the connection comes up immediately and works flawlessly.
Apart from the fact that I can't use any later kernels there is no
disadvantage. I think that the iwlwifi business has been forced on us
prematurely for no obvious benefit. I know we are supposed to help find
the bugs, but I think I'll wait until the thing works better before
going down that route again.

Anthony

--
Anthony Campbell - ac@acampbell.org.uk
Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews,
and sceptical articles)


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 06-15-2008, 06:41 PM
Andrew Sackville-West
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 06:00:19PM +0100, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> On 15 Jun 2008, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

...


> > ifup wlan0
> > # can't do anything without upping the thing
> >
> > iwlist wlan0 scan
> > # will perform a scan (can you get this part to work?)
> >
> > iwconfig wlan0 essid <essid of choice>
> >
> > and then various permutations of
> >
> > iwconfig wlan0 channel <chan #>
> > iwconfig wlan0 ap off
> > iwconfig wlan0 ap <MAC of desired ap>
> >
> > all while watching
> >
> > tail -f /var/log/syslog
> >
> > in another terminal until I get the (paraphrased) message:
> >
> > NETDEV: wlan0 comes ready
> >
> > or something like that.
> >
> > I've tried to script this, but it just doesn't work reliably, which is
> > frustrating. It seems that the driver doesn't actually do what it
> > claims with regard to the 'ap off' command. It usually just tries to
> > associate with the last ap, even if that ap is 100 miles away.

...
>
> Is there really any point in doing all this? Using the old system on a
> 2.6.23 kernel the connection comes up immediately and works flawlessly.
> Apart from the fact that I can't use any later kernels there is no
> disadvantage. I think that the iwlwifi business has been forced on us
> prematurely for no obvious benefit. I know we are supposed to help find
> the bugs, but I think I'll wait until the thing works better before
> going down that route again.


well, that's certainly you're perogative. I was merely pointing out
the state it's in for me...

A
 
Old 06-16-2008, 03:55 AM
Chris Bannister
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 11:34:36AM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> I'll read that. I try not to buy anything from China, but it seems that
> all MBs are made there, and most of the other computing stuff too.

Ha!, here in N.Z. it is extremely rare to find something *not* made in
China. In fact some people I know find it amusing picking up objects to
see if they are not made in China. More often than not, sure enough, --
"made in China" <leans over> Dell laptop power supply --sure enough--
"made in China" <picks up lighter from table> --sure enough-- "made in
China" Mind you the ashtray says made in France, but that was bought
many moons ago, from a specialty shop.

So it seems like pretty well all the "cheap" stuff is Made in China.

--
Chris.
======
"One, with God, is always a majority, but many a martyr has been burned
at the stake while the votes were being counted." -- Thomas B. Reed


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 06-16-2008, 08:16 AM
Anthony Campbell
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On 15 Jun 2008, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > Is there really any point in doing all this? Using the old system on a
> > 2.6.23 kernel the connection comes up immediately and works flawlessly.
> > Apart from the fact that I can't use any later kernels there is no
> > disadvantage. I think that the iwlwifi business has been forced on us
> > prematurely for no obvious benefit. I know we are supposed to help find
> > the bugs, but I think I'll wait until the thing works better before
> > going down that route again.
>
>
> well, that's certainly you're perogative. I was merely pointing out
> the state it's in for me...
>
> A


Yes, fair enough, and it's useful to know how you did it. Thanks for
posting. I just wish we had the option to use the older system with
later kernels.

Anthony


--
Anthony Campbell - ac@acampbell.org.uk
Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews,
and sceptical articles)


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 06-16-2008, 09:19 AM
Chris Bannister
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 08:10:46AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:55:52 +1200
> Chris Bannister <mockingbird@earthlight.co.nz> wrote:
>
> Hello Chris,
>
> > So it seems like pretty well all the "cheap" stuff is Made in China.
>
> Traditionally, it's made in Taiwan. These days, however, it's not
> expedient to say so, hence the use of the term People's Republic of
> China, or just PRC. Politics.....

It was explicitly stated "Made in China". I have seem "Made in Taiwan",
never "Main in PRC" or "Made in People's Republic of China".

Caveat: My statement above doesn't necessarily imply that the products
made in China are of lower quality than of products made anywhere else.

--
Chris.
======
"One, with God, is always a majority, but many a martyr has been burned
at the stake while the votes were being counted." -- Thomas B. Reed


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 07:48 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org