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Old 06-14-2008, 07:25 PM
Mike Bird
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Sat June 14 2008 11:24:06 Kenward Vaughan wrote:
> We are in the same position, and need a quick solution. I'm looking at
> Newegg's Lenovo Thinkpads (R61i and T61) at <$1K and the Dell
> Vostro/Latitude D630 choices at the $600/850 levels.
>
> Costco has some HP's as well, roughly the same level.
>
> The $$ is fine across the board--I wanted quick feelings about the
> models... are thinkpads simply superior build-wise and so are the best
> choice, or...?
>
> I recognize that this could start a flameware--it's not the intent,
> though. Honest thoughts are welcome.

Thinkpads are just wonderful. However to use the NVidia you'll need
either Testing or a mix of Unstable and Testing, either of which
entails an awful lot of volatility.

FWIW, Fedora 9 Gnome works fine on the T61, but use Fedora 8 if you
prefer KDE.

--Mike Bird


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Old 06-15-2008, 01:43 AM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 03:26:26PM -0400, Damon L. Chesser wrote:
> IMHO, thinkpads have a long history of supporting linux (or rather that
> linux works on them) and many really like it. OTOH, the Vostro is also
> a box fully supported (watch what wireless you get) and the Latitude is
> of similar build, but beefer. I do not think any of these three are bad
> choices. I have never owned a thinkpad and would not due to the owners
> of the company. This is a personal choice and you are free to disagree
> with that stance, but it does support the use of linux.

By owners of the company, do you mean Lenovo or their predecessor IBM?
I haven't seen a Lenovo Thinkpad. I do have an IBM Thinkpad; the screen
died when the tent in which I was sitting was hit by lightening (at
least I had metal poles) but at least I was able to retreive the data
off the hard drive.

Doug.


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Old 06-15-2008, 08:37 AM
Lee Glidewell
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Sunday 15 June 2008 01:27:14 am Anthony Campbell wrote:
> <snip>
> Wireless works with th old ipw3945 stuff but I have never managed to get
> iwlwifi to do anything, so I can't use a later kernel than 2.6.23,

Well, it Works For Me(tm). The procedure for getting iwlwifi up and running is
slightly different from the older driver, but it definitely works (with a few
known bugs, admittedly, such as poor LED indicator support).

I would never choose a wifi chip other than Intel, so I want to say both 1) it
shouldn't present compatibility problems, and 2) encourage anyone who's had
such problems to post them here, along with what they've done, so that if
these *are* serious problems, I can stop suggesting Intel wifi. Because
otherwise, I plan to suggest that.

Lee


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Old 06-15-2008, 03:34 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 10:11:43AM -0400, Damon L. Chesser wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-06-14 at 21:43 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 03:26:26PM -0400, Damon L. Chesser wrote:
>
> > By owners of the company, do you mean Lenovo or their predecessor IBM?
> > I haven't seen a Lenovo Thinkpad. I do have an IBM Thinkpad; the screen
> > died when the tent in which I was sitting was hit by lightening (at
> > least I had metal poles) but at least I was able to retreive the data
> > off the hard drive.
> >
> > Doug.
>
> Doug,
>
> By owners I mean Communist China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo

I'll read that. I try not to buy anything from China, but it seems that
all MBs are made there, and most of the other computing stuff too.

It would be nice if there was a made-in-democracy computer source.

Doug.


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Old 06-16-2008, 07:10 AM
Brad Rogers
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:55:52 +1200
Chris Bannister <mockingbird@earthlight.co.nz> wrote:

Hello Chris,

> So it seems like pretty well all the "cheap" stuff is Made in China.

Traditionally, it's made in Taiwan. These days, however, it's not
expedient to say so, hence the use of the term People's Republic of
China, or just PRC. Politics.....

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/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"

The public wants what the public gets
Going Underground - The Jam
 
Old 06-17-2008, 12:57 AM
"Owen Townend"
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On 16/06/2008, Damon L. Chesser <damon@damtek.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-06-16 at 21:19 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 08:10:46AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > > On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:55:52 +1200
> > > Chris Bannister <mockingbird@earthlight.co.nz> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Chris,
> > >
> > > > So it seems like pretty well all the "cheap" stuff is Made in China.
> > >
> > > Traditionally, it's made in Taiwan. These days, however, it's not
> > > expedient to say so, hence the use of the term People's Republic of
> > > China, or just PRC. Politics.....
> >
> > It was explicitly stated "Made in China". I have seem "Made in Taiwan",
> > never "Main in PRC" or "Made in People's Republic of China".
> >
> > Caveat: My statement above doesn't necessarily imply that the products
> > made in China are of lower quality than of products made anywhere else.
> >
>
> Oh, I agree. It is just that (in my mind) there is a difference between
> made in China (often a Taiwan company leased a factory in China) and PRC
> owned. I also know it is very hard to find anything NOT made in China
> (whether it is Taiwan or PRC). I just don't see any reason to support
> the (Communism? debatable) absolute dictatorship that is China. I also
> know it may even be silly. It is just where I draw my personal line.
> Yours may vary. I may not be able to find a pair of pants not made in
> China, but I can find a laptop at least made by a company NOT owned by
> the PRC, even if it is "made in China". Again, just a personal
> preference, like vanilla ice cream or chocolate.
>
>

Hey,

Here is Australia though I believe that attempting to go down the
line of not buying anything Chinese made, owned or run on principal
would be similar to attempting to be a strict vegan: possible, but
definately far from easy.
Avoiding PRC gov't owned and run may be easier to adhere to, and
also attempts to avoid punishing the people for the leaders' position.
WRT Lenovo: from wikipedia[1]:
"effectively the Chinese government owns about 27.17% of Lenovo and is
the largest shareholder".
As you said, this is not simply a Taiwanese leased factory. The
largest stakeholder is the PRC gov't hence the warranted distinction.

Note, for me this is mostly academic. As a student and casual
employee my wallet holds much sway in these decisions.

cheers,
Owen.

Footnotes:
--
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Ownership


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Old 06-17-2008, 01:33 AM
Lish
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Damon L. Chesser <damon@damtek.com> wrote:

> (whether it is Taiwan or PRC). I just don't see any reason to support
> the (Communism? debatable) absolute dictatorship that is China.

As a Chinese, I dont think the Communism, or further the "absolute
dictatorship" is a burden to our country.
Instead, we are proud of the dictatorship party's powerful
macro-control and regulatory capacity. At this point, maybe we ll be
same since under different systems.

------------------------------------
lish


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Old 06-17-2008, 03:05 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/16/08 20:33, Lish wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Damon L. Chesser <damon@damtek.com> wrote:
>
>> (whether it is Taiwan or PRC). I just don't see any reason to support
>> the (Communism? debatable) absolute dictatorship that is China.
>
> As a Chinese, I dont think the Communism, or further the "absolute
> dictatorship" is a burden to our country.
> Instead, we are proud of the dictatorship party's powerful
> macro-control and regulatory capacity.

Except that "regulatory capacity" when every petty official and his
brother are on the take. Should a third of the buildings that
collapsed last month have collapsed?

(At least one of the schools that crumbled in on itself was 160 km
from the epicenter. That just *SUCKS*. It's pathetic, and every
Chinese person who keeps quite and goes along to not cause waves is
just as guilty of those children's deaths as the corrupt
construction company owners and foremen who ordered the shoddy work,
and the corrupt government inspectors who let shoddy workmanship
slide by. At least your country isn't averse to 9mm ventilation...)

Oh yeah, 3 more words: Asian Brown Cloud.

> At this point, maybe we ll be
> same since under different systems.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

"Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:55 PM
"s. keeling"
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

In linux.debian.user, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 06/16/08 20:33, Lish wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Damon L. Chesser <damon@damtek.com> wrote:
> >
> >> (whether it is Taiwan or PRC). I just don't see any reason to support
> >> the (Communism? debatable) absolute dictatorship that is China.
> >
> > Instead, we are proud of the dictatorship party's powerful
> > macro-control and regulatory capacity.
>
> Except that "regulatory capacity" when every petty official and his

Well said!

> Oh yeah, 3 more words: Asian Brown Cloud.

They export everything else. Why not pollution?

Besides, that cloud is the result of feeding USian consumerism.
You've exported production and the resultant pollution to China.
Hooray, EPA! :-P Having second thoughts?


--
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(*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
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References:

Re: Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was Re: OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?
From: "s. keeling" <keeling@nucleus.com>
 
Old 06-21-2008, 10:35 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/21/08 16:55, s. keeling wrote:
> In linux.debian.user, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 06/16/08 20:33, Lish wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Damon L. Chesser <damon@damtek.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> (whether it is Taiwan or PRC). I just don't see any reason to support
>>>> the (Communism? debatable) absolute dictatorship that is China.
>>> Instead, we are proud of the dictatorship party's powerful
>>> macro-control and regulatory capacity.
>> Except that "regulatory capacity" when every petty official and his
>
> Well said!
>
>> Oh yeah, 3 more words: Asian Brown Cloud.
>
> They export everything else. Why not pollution?
>
> Besides, that cloud is the result of feeding USian consumerism.
> You've exported production and the resultant pollution to China.
> Hooray, EPA! :-P Having second thoughts?

Nah. As long as California limo liberals make sure there are no
offshore oil rigs, and Ted Kennedy prevents windmills off the coast
of Martha's Vineyard, they don't *really* give a rat's arse about China.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

"Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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FocAn3fldl4WkQdhCKrHcJJHTeH5Y4JP
=MyyW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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