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Old 06-11-2008, 01:31 PM
Gregory Seidman
 
Default OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 08:58:53AM -0400, Thomas H. George wrote:
> The college is offering packages starting at $1,399 (Dell Latitude D630)
> and $1,499 (Lenoveo ThinkPad T61) all with 2GB memory, 10/100/1000
> Ethernet, Wireless, 1394 Port, Bluetooth, Vista 32Bit Business OS,
> SmartCare/4in1 Media Card Reader and Microsoft Office 2007 Professional
> pre-installed by certified technicians located on campus. Three year
> warranty and 1GB Flash Drive thrown in.
>
> Money is tight, of course. If I were the student and there is a
> modest-priced laptop with Debian and OpenOffice I'd take it in a flash.
> I'm not the student, I'm his 79 year old grandfather and I don't want
> him to start off at a disadvantage. There are certainly many college
> students and recent grads that subscribe to this list. I would value
> your insights.

I love Debian, but for a laptop I'd go Mac and MacOS X every time. I'd even
lean Mac for a desktop.

At this point in time, unless money is *really* tight, I'd get a MacBook.
$1199 gets you 2G memory, 1 year warranty, 802.11a/b/g/n, 1394 port,
10/100/1000 Ethernet, Bluetooth, etc. Add $249 for 3 years of AppleCare &
warranty (definitely worth it, and many credit cards will actually double
or add a year to the warranty period). NeoOffice (MacOS port of OpenOffice)
is free and works well, or you can install Debian side-by-side and use
OpenOfficee.

That's without the student discount, by the way. The student discount
brings it down to $1089, or $1272 with AppleCare. It also comes with a free
iPod (8GB iPod Touch or 8GB iPod Nano or you can pay an extra $100 for the
16GB iPod Touch or $200 for the 32GB) when you buy it as a student. The
free iPod is an online rebate thing. The student discount is available
online, of course (look for the Education link at store.apple.com).

(I do not work for Apple. I do not own Apple stock, but my wife does.)

> Tom
--Greg


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Old 06-11-2008, 02:03 PM
"Damon L. Chesser"
 
Default OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 08:58 -0400, Thomas H. George wrote:
> The college is offering packages starting at $1,399 (Dell Latitude D630)
> and $1,499 (Lenoveo ThinkPad T61) all with 2GB memory, 10/100/1000
> Ethernet, Wireless, 1394 Port, Bluetooth, Vista 32Bit Business OS,
> SmartCare/4in1 Media Card Reader and Microsoft Office 2007 Professional
> pre-installed by certified technicians located on campus. Three year
> warranty and 1GB Flash Drive thrown in.
>
> Money is tight, of course. If I were the student and there is a
> modest-priced laptop with Debian and OpenOffice I'd take it in a flash.
> I'm not the student, I'm his 79 year old grandfather and I don't want
> him to start off at a disadvantage. There are certainly many college
> students and recent grads that subscribe to this list. I would value
> your insights.
>
> Tom

Tom,

There are two schools of thought on Laptops. 1. Buy an expensive model
because it is built well and will last three years or more and your
friends will be impressed! 2. Buy a the cheapest model that will do
the job, if it breaks you can replace it three to five times for the
price of the expensive one.

Guess which school of thought I belong to? I own a Dell Vostro 1500.
Today you can get one with a (relatively slow) dual core intell proc
running at 1.4G, 2G of ram, intel video, 15.3" wide screen, (I think)
130G HD, DVD burner and it will run Linux, comes with XP or Vista, all
for just about $500 USD.

Like the Latitude, the Vostro is a business class machine (meaning they
are built to higher specs then similar consumer models). The Latitude
has a Magnesium-alloy chassis, the Vostro has an alloy backed chassis.
Both of these things are good, it means the box will flex very little
while it is being carried around in a backpack. See here for features:
(Compare Laptops)

http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

What we don't know is what kind of warranty does the Latitude come with?
You can get a very basic to a full, tech on site in 4 hours w/parts
warranty with both. I am betting you can get full coverage direct from
Dell for much less (I don't know anything about the Lenoveo). See here
for a price on a Latitude 630, $829 out the door, without onsite
service, one year warrenty:

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx?c=us&cs=04&id=latit_d630&l=en& s=bsd&~tab=bundlestab

The Vostro 1500 with 2G right now goes for $549. Both with windows XP
home, but you don't need anything more then that for school. The XP
pro/Vista > home has networking features your Grandson just does not
need. Both machines (and I assume the thinkpad) are perfectly adequate
for school use (and most other uses) and if the kid needs more OS, have
him install Linux.

As for the MS office installed, who cares? You can run OO just fine on
win. I have a friend (who is a son of a friend) who just went through
school and he used my used laptops and ran ELive Linux on them and was
able to get everything done, no windows installed at all (that took a
few years of coaching my my side ) <y used laptops where cheap ~$500
at time of purchase, I used them for three years, got a newer ~$500
laptop and gave the used one to him. So, he was always using a 4 year
old technology box and it worked for his school needs.

Your grandson will resist this method, I suspect. He will want to play
games, have "cool" things, etc etc.

HTH
--
Damon L. Chesser
damon@damtek.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dchesser
 
Old 06-11-2008, 02:33 PM
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
 
Default OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

Ron Johnson wrote:
> The contrarian in me would buy him a course in shorthand instead.
> (I remember that the very act of hand-copying blackboard notes --
> while thinking about which were the most important -- most
> successfully burned information into my brain, and typing took too
> much focus away from other tasks.)

Consider yourself lucky. While in college, I develop (not fully
willingly) the ability to copy what was written without really paying
attention to what I wrote. That is not good (and I'm not proud of it),
but even copying can become and automatic hability.

--
Declared guilty... of displaying feelings of an almost human nature.
-- Pink Floyd, "The Wall"

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@kalinowski.com.br
http://move.to/hpkb


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Old 06-11-2008, 03:44 PM
 
Default OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 06/11/08 07:58, Thomas H. George wrote:
>> The college is offering packages starting at $1,399 (Dell Latitude D630)
>> and $1,499 (Lenoveo ThinkPad T61) all with 2GB memory, 10/100/1000
>> Ethernet, Wireless, 1394 Port, Bluetooth, Vista 32Bit Business OS,
>> SmartCare/4in1 Media Card Reader and Microsoft Office 2007 Professional
>> pre-installed by certified technicians located on campus. Three year
>> warranty and 1GB Flash Drive thrown in.
>
> Is it a requirement to have a *Windows* laptop? IOW, to "they" use
> Windows-specific apps for taking tests, replacing the blackboard, etc?
>
>> Money is tight, of course. If I were the student and there is a
>> modest-priced laptop with Debian and OpenOffice I'd take it in a flash.
>> I'm not the student, I'm his 79 year old grandfather and I don't want
>> him to start off at a disadvantage. There are certainly many college
>> students and recent grads that subscribe to this list. I would value
>> your insights.
>
> The contrarian in me would buy him a course in shorthand instead.
> (I remember that the very act of hand-copying blackboard notes --
> while thinking about which were the most important -- most
> successfully burned information into my brain, and typing took too
> much focus away from other tasks.)
>
> - --
> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA USA
>
> "Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New
> York is doomed."
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFIT9HPS9HxQb37XmcRAhaJAKCDXY20WomVK8TnDgWCDU rZXoQCKwCgjfvA
> AiCZmp48ht7zkTzXDxQX5Y0=
> =99Om
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

As a recently-retired Professor (Computer Engineering) it is my perception
that the concept of a physical "blackboard" is disappearing. Many
professors use presentation slides from their laptops projected overhead.
The slides are usually created from some sort of presentation software
(e.g. PowerPoint). Many also include embedded equations (e.g. Mathtype).
Often the slides are also made available to the students either from the
Professor's web site or some central campus web site (there is a program
called "blackboard" made for such a purpose). In my case each of us was
"given" a laptop preloaded with all MS stuff (MS and Dell had made a
campus-wide "deal"). As such the infrastructure was by definition
Dell/MS. Many of us of course also had our own machine usually with some
form of Linux. Before I would spend any money on a college machine I
would investigate the campus infrastructure. It would be a shame to have
spent money on a laptop that is incompatible with that of the campus.
Larry
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>



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Old 06-11-2008, 03:47 PM
"p.daniels"
 
Default OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Wednesday June 11 2008 07:58:53 Thomas H. George wrote:
> The college is offering packages starting at $1,399 (Dell Latitude
D630)
> and $1,499 (Lenoveo ThinkPad T61) all with 2GB memory,
10/100/1000
> Ethernet, Wireless, 1394 Port, Bluetooth, Vista 32Bit Business OS,
> SmartCare/4in1 Media Card Reader and Microsoft Office 2007
Professional
> pre-installed by certified technicians located on campus. Three year
> warranty and 1GB Flash Drive thrown in.
>
> Money is tight, of course. If I were the student and there is a
> modest-priced laptop with Debian and OpenOffice I'd take it in a flash.
> I'm not the student, I'm his 79 year old grandfather and I don't want
> him to start off at a disadvantage. There are certainly many college
> students and recent grads that subscribe to this list. I would value
> your insights.
>
> Tom

Wow, that's an awful lot of money. Do some shopping on newegg.com, I
got my Lenovo Y510 for under $700. 2 Gb RAM, dual core Intel, card
reader, great wireless, webcam, the whole nine yards, and may I add it
works great with Debian. I've only had it for a few months, but I am
unabashedly thrilled with my purchase, especially at the price (I think it
was a sale, but it was only $100 off or so, that's still well under a
thousand).

My point is not that you should run out and buy one of these (although I
do love it), but simply that a little shopping can save you a ton of money.
My machine seems to be similarly spec'd to the ones you describe (yes,
even came with friggin' Vista, although it never even got to boot it up),
for a great deal less.

As another poster asked, is Windows a _requirement_? With some
schools it is.

Best wishes-
Pete, who sure didn't get a laptop when he went to school...


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Old 06-11-2008, 04:05 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/11/08 10:47, p.daniels wrote:
[snip]
>
> Wow, that's an awful lot of money. Do some shopping on newegg.com, I
> got my Lenovo Y510 for under $700. 2 Gb RAM, dual core Intel, card

That thing must be an oven! How often does the fan come on?

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

"Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFIT/e9S9HxQb37XmcRAtYlAJ9i22if+grr8M1FLUqwI1QZAXNYGwCc Dh/b
uz9gy80EFU1HiolXmwh4Tqc=
=A93o
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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Old 06-11-2008, 04:32 PM
"Damon L. Chesser"
 
Default OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 11:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 06/11/08 10:47, p.daniels wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > Wow, that's an awful lot of money. Do some shopping on newegg.com, I
> > got my Lenovo Y510 for under $700. 2 Gb RAM, dual core Intel, card
>
> That thing must be an oven! How often does the fan come on?
>
> - --
> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA USA

Ron,

I have always been a fan of dualcore athlon64s (ever since I saw a
laptop in a store running one and I felt no heat on the bottom, and I
set a win process running 100% cpu and there was still no response
issues). However my Dell Vostro has dual core intel (Intel Coreā„¢ 2 Duo
T5270) and while the bottom does get warm, it does not get hot. I have
run monitoring tools on it to get the temp. To even get the other fan
to (it has two) fire up, I had to compile two kernels at the same time.
The exact number for the temp, I do not remember, but I was concerned
since I never heard the fans run at all. Now I know why, in my normal
use, I never need the 2nd fan to run, the primary fan normally runs on
slow. If you are really interested, search this archive, or
debian_amd64 (it might even had been Dells linux-users list, I don't
remember) and the numbers are posted.

It was about wither or not you needed to run a separate app to run the
fans or not (no, despite ubuntu forums saying otherwise).

In conclusion, dualcore athons run cooler, but at least on the Dell
Vostro, the dual core intel 1.4G proc does not run hot.
>
> "Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New
> York is doomed."
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFIT/e9S9HxQb37XmcRAtYlAJ9i22if+grr8M1FLUqwI1QZAXNYGwCc Dh/b
> uz9gy80EFU1HiolXmwh4Tqc=
> =A93o
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
--
Damon L. Chesser
damon@damtek.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dchesser
 
Old 06-11-2008, 04:38 PM
"Damon L. Chesser"
 
Default OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 11:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 06/11/08 10:47, p.daniels wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > Wow, that's an awful lot of money. Do some shopping on newegg.com, I
> > got my Lenovo Y510 for under $700. 2 Gb RAM, dual core Intel, card
>
> That thing must be an oven! How often does the fan come on?

Ron,

I found the thread I was talking about, here you are for your
edification:

http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-user@lists.debian.org/msg515169.html


--
Damon L. Chesser
damon@damtek.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dchesser
 
Old 06-11-2008, 04:57 PM
Sarunas Burdulis
 
Default OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thomas H. George wrote:
> The college is offering packages starting at $1,399 (Dell Latitude D630)
> and $1,499 (Lenoveo ThinkPad T61) all with 2GB memory, 10/100/1000
> Ethernet, Wireless, 1394 Port, Bluetooth, Vista 32Bit Business OS,
> SmartCare/4in1 Media Card Reader and Microsoft Office 2007 Professional
> pre-installed by certified technicians located on campus. Three year
> warranty and 1GB Flash Drive thrown in.
>
> Money is tight, of course. If I were the student and there is a
> modest-priced laptop with Debian and OpenOffice I'd take it in a flash.
> I'm not the student, I'm his 79 year old grandfather and I don't want
> him to start off at a disadvantage. There are certainly many college
> students and recent grads that subscribe to this list. I would value
> your insights.
>
> Tom

Tom,

You can get a decent laptop for less. However the important question
here is what software is required by the college? Several people have
already mentioned that here. College may be using VPN, eTokens, Wi-Fi
security modes, various online teaching systems etc. which they (or
vendors) test in Windows only. I would try to find out such things
first. Are there any Linux-related wiki's/help pages/etc. on a college
website?---often these are created on department level webpages and
aren't really a part of the official support. These usually will
concentrate on such issues, for example
http://www.math.dartmouth.edu/software.

Sarunas

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Old 06-11-2008, 05:24 PM
Hugo Vanwoerkom
 
Default OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

p.daniels wrote:

On Wednesday June 11 2008 07:58:53 Thomas H. George wrote:
The college is offering packages starting at $1,399 (Dell Latitude

D630)
and $1,499 (Lenoveo ThinkPad T61) all with 2GB memory,

10/100/1000

Ethernet, Wireless, 1394 Port, Bluetooth, Vista 32Bit Business OS,
SmartCare/4in1 Media Card Reader and Microsoft Office 2007

Professional

pre-installed by certified technicians located on campus. Three year
warranty and 1GB Flash Drive thrown in.

Money is tight, of course. If I were the student and there is a
modest-priced laptop with Debian and OpenOffice I'd take it in a flash.
I'm not the student, I'm his 79 year old grandfather and I don't want
him to start off at a disadvantage. There are certainly many college
students and recent grads that subscribe to this list. I would value
your insights.

Tom


Wow, that's an awful lot of money. Do some shopping on newegg.com, I
got my Lenovo Y510 for under $700. 2 Gb RAM, dual core Intel, card
reader, great wireless, webcam, the whole nine yards, and may I add it
works great with Debian. I've only had it for a few months, but I am
unabashedly thrilled with my purchase, especially at the price (I think it
was a sale, but it was only $100 off or so, that's still well under a
thousand).




But does the modem work?

Hugo


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