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Hugo Vanwoerkom 06-10-2008 07:30 PM

signing a pdf document
 
Hi,

People I do business with want me to physically sign a contract that
they send me as a small pdf (22K).


I use Adobe Reader to print it, I sign the printed copy and scan the
result and send the jpeg image back: 3 pages totalling 891K!


That is ridiculous. Is that the way everybody signs a pdf document?

Hugo


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"Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso" 06-10-2008 07:34 PM

signing a pdf document
 
On 10/06/2008, Hugo Vanwoerkom <hvw59601@care2.com> wrote:
> That is ridiculous. Is that the way everybody signs a pdf document?

What is more ridiculous is that a signature of this kind is accepted
as legitimate. I say you educate them on the miracle of GPG
signatures.

Also, Acrobat Reader? Oh, dear Cthulhu, why?

- Jordi G. H.


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Florian Kulzer 06-10-2008 09:42 PM

signing a pdf document
 
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 14:30:18 -0500, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Hi,
>
> People I do business with want me to physically sign a contract that
> they send me as a small pdf (22K).
>
> I use Adobe Reader to print it, I sign the printed copy and scan the
> result and send the jpeg image back: 3 pages totalling 891K!
>
> That is ridiculous. Is that the way everybody signs a pdf document?

It is easy to scan your own signature and convert it into a compact
vector-based PDF that can be scaled without loss of quality. I doubt
that this constitutes a true signature in the legal sense, but it is
quite handy, for example to send "signed" documents directly to a fax
pseudo-printer.

To put the signature into an original document, e.g. into a PDF
registration form, I use Latex to superimpose the PDFs, as well as to
fill in any additional data that the form requires. I know no other
approach that preserves the full printing quality of the original PDF
while keeping the final PDF small.

I can post a simple example how to do this with Latex if you are
interested. However, it would be rather obvious from the quality of
latex-produced PDF that the original or contract has not been printed,
signed and rescanned, so maybe your business partners would not accept
such a PDF.

--
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Florian |


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Raj Kiran Grandhi 06-11-2008 01:01 AM

signing a pdf document
 
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

Hi,

People I do business with want me to physically sign a contract that
they send me as a small pdf (22K).


I use Adobe Reader to print it, I sign the printed copy and scan the
result and send the jpeg image back: 3 pages totalling 891K!


That is ridiculous. Is that the way everybody signs a pdf document?



Considering that those people are willing to accept your signature in a
form that can be trivial to forge, chances are that you won't be able to
convince them to use a more secure method. Why bother?



Hugo





--

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
-- Albert Einstein


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Johannes Wiedersich 06-11-2008 07:00 AM

signing a pdf document
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2008-06-10 23:42, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> It is easy to scan your own signature and convert it into a compact
> vector-based PDF that can be scaled without loss of quality. I doubt
> that this constitutes a true signature in the legal sense, but it is
> quite handy, for example to send "signed" documents directly to a fax
> pseudo-printer.
>
> To put the signature into an original document, e.g. into a PDF
> registration form, I use Latex to superimpose the PDFs, as well as to
> fill in any additional data that the form requires. I know no other
> approach that preserves the full printing quality of the original PDF
> while keeping the final PDF small.
>
> I can post a simple example how to do this with Latex if you are
> interested.

Please, go ahead ;-)

Johannes
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFIT3gmC1NzPRl9qEURAsJvAJ48KFrxkaNjjpsPnnyn3t ulesEefwCfQQAi
Rr3bBib6TNloxmuIXvkG6Z4=
=rF6Y
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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Tzafrir Cohen 06-11-2008 07:23 AM

signing a pdf document
 
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 11:42:29PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 14:30:18 -0500, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > People I do business with want me to physically sign a contract that
> > they send me as a small pdf (22K).
> >
> > I use Adobe Reader to print it, I sign the printed copy and scan the
> > result and send the jpeg image back: 3 pages totalling 891K!
> >
> > That is ridiculous. Is that the way everybody signs a pdf document?
>
> It is easy to scan your own signature and convert it into a compact
> vector-based PDF that can be scaled without loss of quality. I doubt
> that this constitutes a true signature in the legal sense, but it is
> quite handy, for example to send "signed" documents directly to a fax
> pseudo-printer.
>
> To put the signature into an original document, e.g. into a PDF
> registration form, I use Latex to superimpose the PDFs, as well as to
> fill in any additional data that the form requires. I know no other
> approach that preserves the full printing quality of the original PDF
> while keeping the final PDF small.
>
> I can post a simple example how to do this with Latex if you are
> interested. However, it would be rather obvious from the quality of
> latex-produced PDF that the original or contract has not been printed,
> signed and rescanned, so maybe your business partners would not accept
> such a PDF.

Anybody with a handy "rescanned" filter for cups? Add some noise to make
the document appear as acanned.

:-)

--
Tzafrir Cohen | tzafrir@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il | | a Mutt's
tzafrir@cohens.org.il | | best
ICQ# 16849754 | | friend


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Johann Spies 06-11-2008 07:28 AM

signing a pdf document
 
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 11:42:29PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote:

> I can post a simple example how to do this with Latex if you are
> interested.

I am also interested to see how you do that. An example would be
appreciated.

Regards
Johann
--
Johann Spies Telefoon: 021-808 4036
Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch

"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know
not what they do..." Luke 23:34


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Håkon Alstadheim 06-11-2008 08:06 AM

signing a pdf document
 
Florian Kulzer wrote:

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 14:30:18 -0500, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:


Hi,

People I do business with want me to physically sign a contract that
they send me as a small pdf (22K).


I use Adobe Reader to print it, I sign the printed copy and scan the
result and send the jpeg image back: 3 pages totalling 891K!


That is ridiculous. Is that the way everybody signs a pdf document?



It is easy to scan your own signature and convert it into a compact
vector-based PDF that can be scaled without loss of quality. I doubt
that this constitutes a true signature in the legal sense, but it is
quite handy, for example to send "signed" documents directly to a fax
pseudo-printer.

To put the signature into an original document, e.g. into a PDF
registration form, I use Latex to superimpose the PDFs, as well as to
fill in any additional data that the form requires. I know no other
approach that preserves the full printing quality of the original PDF
while keeping the final PDF small.

I can post a simple example how to do this with Latex if you are
interested. However, it would be rather obvious from the quality of
latex-produced PDF that the original or contract has not been printed,
signed and rescanned, so maybe your business partners would not accept
such a PDF.


Please post, it would be cool. If anybody makes a fuss about receiving
such a document, tell them you can add a blur-effect and a sprinkling of
dots to the image and resend it if they want ... Better keep a
ready-made pdf of some random black dots handy in case they actually say
yes. Take the TIFF that is produced as intermediary file when sending
faxes, and run it through some filter in GIMP, add the dots and away you
go !



--
Håkon Alstadheim
47 35 39 38



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Johannes Wiedersich 06-11-2008 08:22 AM

signing a pdf document
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2008-06-11 10:06, Håkon Alstadheim wrote:
> Better keep a
> ready-made pdf of some random black dots handy in case they actually say
> yes.

It's probably sufficient to 'blur' the image by converting it to low
quality jpg with the typical artifacts. That would emulate what most M$
applications do.... ;-)

YMMV,
Johannes
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFIT4tiC1NzPRl9qEURAtHKAJ94V3juL3UyKGnxAxwP7y/rmxh34wCcCkeW
mYKo39UOBswb+yElEE+4N64=
=Idug
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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Florian Kulzer 06-11-2008 09:06 AM

signing a pdf document
 
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 09:00:54 +0200, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> On 2008-06-10 23:42, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> > It is easy to scan your own signature and convert it into a compact
> > vector-based PDF that can be scaled without loss of quality. I doubt
> > that this constitutes a true signature in the legal sense, but it is
> > quite handy, for example to send "signed" documents directly to a fax
> > pseudo-printer.
> >
> > To put the signature into an original document, e.g. into a PDF
> > registration form, I use Latex to superimpose the PDFs, as well as to
> > fill in any additional data that the form requires. I know no other
> > approach that preserves the full printing quality of the original PDF
> > while keeping the final PDF small.
> >
> > I can post a simple example how to do this with Latex if you are
> > interested.
>
> Please, go ahead ;-)

I have included an example below that can be run through pdflatex. It
takes the first two pages of fontname.pdf (a document that is part of
texlive-base), puts some additional text on the first page and another
PDF (sample_eps.pdf, a font sample from texlive-doc-en) on top of the
second page.

It can be cumbersome to align a lot of text in textblock environments if
the original form has many irregularly-spaced input fields. You can load
the PDF form as a background image into the graphics program of your
choice (inkscape, scribus, OOo-draw, ...) and use this program to add
your text at the right positions. Then delete the background, safe your
aligned text as another PDF and superimpose the two PDFs with pdflatex.
If your preferred graphics/DTP software is not able to import the
original PDF as a suitable background image then you can use pdftoppm to
generate images of all the pages; just make sure that your graphics
software imports the images with the correct resolution.

If the original PDF is a real PDF form then you can try to fill in its
fields with pdftk (using generate_fdf, fill_form and flatten).
Furthermore, all poppler-based PDF readers (e.g. evince, okular) will
soon be able to fill in PDF forms natively. (Maybe this works already; I
have not tried it recently.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

documentclass[a4paper,12pt]{article}

usepackage{graphicx}
include{letterspacing}

usepackage[absolute]{textpos}
setlength{TPHorizModule}{10mm}
setlength{TPVertModule}{10mm}

enewcommand{familydefault}{phv}
pagestyle{empty}

%=================================================

egin{document}
setlength{parindent}{0em}

%=================================================

extblockorigin{0cm}{0cm}

egin{textblock}{5}(3,12)
Large John Doe
end{textblock}

% how to change the spacing of the characters, e.g. for credit card fields
% that have a separate box for each digit

egin{textblock}{10}(4,20)
letterspace to 1.4
aturalwidth {Large 1234567890123456}
end{textblock}

%=================================================

egin{textblock}{29.71}(0,0)
includegraphics[page=1]{/usr/share/doc/texlive-base/fontname/fontname.pdf}
end{textblock}

%=================================================

vspace*{1mm}
pagebreak

%=================================================

% how to superimpose another graphic file, e.g. for a signature

egin{textblock}{8}(8,10)
includegraphics[width=8cm]{/usr/share/doc/texlive-doc-en/english/truetype/sample_eps.pdf}
end{textblock}

%=================================================

egin{textblock}{29.71}(0,0)
includegraphics[page=2]{/usr/share/doc/texlive-base/fontname/fontname.pdf}
end{textblock}

%=================================================

end{document}

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Florian |


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