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Old 09-23-2013, 03:56 AM
Carl Fink
 
Default Touchscreen Ultrabooks running Debian?

On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 09:50:58PM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Carl Fink wrote:
> > OK, that terrible and confusing name was picked by upstream. Thanks.
> >
> > You know, the kernel project doesn't have to use a terrible,
> > misleading name because AMD says so.
>
> I don't understand. It doesn't seem terrible. What is misleading
> about the name? Also any alternative that I can brainstorm is worse.

What's misleading? It says "AMD" on the label but it means "many CPUs only
some of which are made by AMD." You don't see it as misleading because
you're too familiar with the very specialized meaning of the term (a
specific CPU _technology_ invented by AMD) but to anyone coming from outside
that tiny club you belong to (such as me) it's clearly meant for AMD
processors.

I'm not exactly low-tech here. I'm a former system administrator and
occasional computer journalist. I just haven't studied the details of CPUs
for several years.
--
Carl Fink nitpicking@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!


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Old 09-23-2013, 04:48 PM
Matus UHLAR - fantomas
 
Default Touchscreen Ultrabooks running Debian?

On 22.09.13 23:56, Carl Fink wrote:

What's misleading? It says "AMD" on the label but it means "many CPUs only
some of which are made by AMD." You don't see it as misleading because
you're too familiar with the very specialized meaning of the term (a
specific CPU _technology_ invented by AMD) but to anyone coming from outside
that tiny club you belong to (such as me) it's clearly meant for AMD
processors.


You are too narrow-minded. It says "AMD" because it's the architecture
designed by AMD. Would it be named "intel", "ia" or "x86_64", we'd be in
thesame situation because it's not only for Intel CPUs and the last CPU
namex *86 was made (not even mentioning introduced) years ago.

I feel you just tend have wrong assumptions (or conclusions?).
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:02 PM
Carl Fink
 
Default Touchscreen Ultrabooks running Debian?

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 06:48:04PM +0200, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:

> You are too narrow-minded.

Wanting clear language is narrow-minded? I think you might have wanted a
different insult, this one makes no sense.

> ... It says "AMD" because it's the architecture designed by AMD. Would it
> be named "intel", "ia" or "x86_64", we'd be in thesame situation because
> it's not only for Intel CPUs and the last CPU namex *86 was made (not even
> mentioning introduced) years ago.

OK, you've listed other confusing bits of terminology. Why do these bad
choices make other bad choices better?
--
Carl Fink nitpicking@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!


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Old 09-23-2013, 06:04 PM
Matus UHLAR - fantomas
 
Default Touchscreen Ultrabooks running Debian?

... It says "AMD" because it's the architecture designed by AMD. Would it
be named "intel", "ia" or "x86_64", we'd be in thesame situation because
it's not only for Intel CPUs and the last CPU namex *86 was made (not even
mentioning introduced) years ago.



OK, you've listed other confusing bits of terminology. Why do these bad
choices make other bad choices better?


I don't see any better choice and it's way too late to change it (not only
with debian). AMD created the architecture so AMD named it. Intel accepted
the architecture. Go blame AMD or Intel, but I recommend you to blame
yourself for having assumptions...

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Old 09-23-2013, 06:36 PM
Carl Fink
 
Default Touchscreen Ultrabooks running Debian?

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 08:04:56PM +0200, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:

> I don't see any better choice and it's way too late to change it (not only
> with debian). AMD created the architecture so AMD named it. Intel accepted
> the architecture. Go blame AMD or Intel, but I recommend you to blame
> yourself for having assumptions...

You're engaging in Failed Telepathy. My point is that the terminology could
be improved, but you keep insisting it's some sort of pique that I
personally was misled. It is not--it's my professional (I'm a professional
writer) feeling that using confusing words is bad, even if you somehow
believe that free software projects are bound to use the words selected by
the marketing departments of chip makers.
--
Carl Fink nitpicking@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!


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Old 09-23-2013, 07:51 PM
Bob Proulx
 
Default Touchscreen Ultrabooks running Debian?

Carl Fink wrote:
> My point is that the terminology could be improved ...

Let's go with that for a moment. What would it be called instead? It
is all very well and good to say that something is bad. Lots of
things are bad. But if it is to be improved then it must have an
improvement available. What would be the improvement in this case?

And I must note that with a signature line prominently displaying your
email address of nitpicking@nitpicking.com and your blog there (good
reading by the way) this type of discussion seems very much
appropriate. :-)

Bob
 
Old 09-24-2013, 07:20 AM
loredana
 
Default Touchscreen Ultrabooks running Debian?

On Mon, 2013-09-23 at 14:36 -0400, Carl Fink wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 08:04:56PM +0200, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:
>
> > I don't see any better choice and it's way too late to change it (not only
> > with debian). AMD created the architecture so AMD named it. Intel accepted
> > the architecture. Go blame AMD or Intel, but I recommend you to blame
> > yourself for having assumptions...
>
> You're engaging in Failed Telepathy. My point is that the terminology could
> be improved, but you keep insisting it's some sort of pique that I
> personally was misled. It is not--it's my professional (I'm a professional
> writer) feeling that using confusing words is bad, even if you somehow
> believe that free software projects are bound to use the words selected by
> the marketing departments of chip makers.
> --
> Carl Fink nitpicking@nitpicking.com
>
> Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
> Stupid mistakes you can correct!
>

This is the very first time I see (in years) a flame on this mailing
list.

Perhaps one may want to consider that changing a word with a
consolidated meaning within a community may cause more trouble than
help.

In any case, debian is so well documented that really takes no time to
find out the meaning of anything, despite conventions that one may not
like.

I added [OT] to the subject because this is actually OT (out of topics).

Loredana






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Old 10-02-2013, 12:51 AM
David Prévot
 
Default Touchscreen Ultrabooks running Debian?

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Hash: SHA256

Hi,

Le 20/09/2013 09:24, Joey Hess a écrit :
> Carl Fink writes:
>> I also found this page:
>> http://www.debian.org/misc/laptops/

/misc/ really needs some love (get its data moved where it belongs [0]).

0: https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Webmaster/TODO#line-57

> That page should have this link added to it, which is getting detailed
> information about Debian on at least some models of laptops.
> https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/
> (www team, can you please do so?)

Done, thanks for the heads up (will show up online in a few hours).

Regards

David


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