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Old 01-19-2011, 09:45 PM
Celejar
 
Default Mini-PCI WifiCard experience?

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 11:42:06 +0100
Klistvud <quotations@aliceadsl.fr> wrote:

> Dne, 19. 01. 2011 11:09:03 je Michelle Konzack napisal(a):
>
> > OK tnaks, found the Link to the "ipw2200" and the
> > non-free firmware is provided by the Debian Project.
>
> If at all possible, do not go with non-free firmware binary blobs, even
> if provided in Debian-related repositories (in addition, non-free is
> not even Debian, strictly speaking -- it's just a "service provided to
> the Debian users"). Binary blobs can not be debugged/improved/enhanced
> by Linux developers and, as a result, may lead to unreliable operation,
> lock-ups, disconnects, unimplemented features, slower speeds, lower
> operating range, or all of the above. When that happens, the
> manufacturer WON'T help you, and the Linux developers CAN'T. So you'll
> be pretty much fscked. I know, I use a broadcom card with a proprietary
> driver and it's a living hell.
>
> Really. Go with a free driver if at all possible, you'll be happy you
> did.

1) Some chips implement all their logic in hardware, and some leave
some for implementation in software (firmware). Why is the latter case
more problematic than the former? IOW, you'll almost never have open
hardware - the chip is just a black box to you. So why does the fact
that they've moved some of the logic to software (firmware) make things
worse?

2) Hardware logic certainly can't be debugged/improved/enhanced, so
once again, why are we worse off now that they've moved some of the
logic into software (firmware)?

3) You mention using a Broadcom card with a proprietary driver. Do
you mean driver or firmware? In general, your post suggests that you
may be conflating the problems with closed drivers and closed
firmwares. The former present much more of a problem, since the code
is actually running on your system and in kernel mode, and can
therefore do do anything it wants to your system. This is not the case
with firmware running on a card.

Celejar
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:12 PM
Mark
 
Default Mini-PCI WifiCard experience?

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:42 AM, Klistvud <quotations@aliceadsl.fr> wrote:

If at all possible, do not go with non-free firmware binary blobs, even if provided in Debian-related repositories (in addition, non-free is not even Debian, strictly speaking -- it's just a "service provided to the Debian users"). Binary blobs can not be debugged/improved/enhanced by Linux developers and, as a result, may lead to unreliable operation, lock-ups, disconnects, unimplemented features, slower speeds, lower operating range, or all of the above. When that happens, the manufacturer WON'T help you, and the Linux developers CAN'T. So you'll be pretty much fscked. I know, I use a broadcom card with a proprietary driver and it's a living hell.




Really. Go with a free driver if at all possible, you'll be happy you did.

+1.* I have a laptop with an intel 2200 card and one with a 2915 card using the ipw2200 firmware running wpa.* I've changed routers, switched from stock firmware to dd-wrt, and nothing seems to eliminate the wireless signal strength from fluttering about once every 15-20 minutes; I don't lose connection but the gnome-network-manager icon (and yes wicd does the same thing) will drop from 4 bars to 2, 1, 3, etc, then back up to 4 after a minute or two.


The machine that runs an Ath5k (natively supported driver in Lenny's kernel) based wifi card on the same wireless wpa network never flutters signal strength, for hours.* Needless to say my vote falls directly in line with Klistvud's comments.


Mark
 
Old 01-20-2011, 07:26 AM
Klistvud
 
Default Mini-PCI WifiCard experience?

Dne, 19. 01. 2011 23:45:12 je Celejar napisal(a):

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 11:42:06 +0100
Klistvud <quotations@aliceadsl.fr> wrote:

> Dne, 19. 01. 2011 11:09:03 je Michelle Konzack napisal(a):
>
> > OK tnaks, found the Link to the "ipw2200" and the
> > non-free firmware is provided by the Debian Project.
>
> If at all possible, do not go with non-free firmware binary blobs,
even

> if provided in Debian-related repositories (in addition, non-free is
> not even Debian, strictly speaking -- it's just a "service provided
to
> the Debian users"). Binary blobs can not be
debugged/improved/enhanced
> by Linux developers and, as a result, may lead to unreliable
operation,

> lock-ups, disconnects, unimplemented features, slower speeds, lower
> operating range, or all of the above. When that happens, the
> manufacturer WON'T help you, and the Linux developers CAN'T. So
you'll
> be pretty much fscked. I know, I use a broadcom card with a
proprietary

> driver and it's a living hell.
>
> Really. Go with a free driver if at all possible, you'll be happy
you

> did.

1) Some chips implement all their logic in hardware, and some leave
some for implementation in software (firmware). Why is the latter
case

more problematic than the former? IOW, you'll almost never have open
hardware - the chip is just a black box to you. So why does the fact
that they've moved some of the logic to software (firmware) make
things

worse?

2) Hardware logic certainly can't be debugged/improved/enhanced, so
once again, why are we worse off now that they've moved some of the
logic into software (firmware)?

3) You mention using a Broadcom card with a proprietary driver. Do
you mean driver or firmware? In general, your post suggests that you
may be conflating the problems with closed drivers and closed
firmwares.


Yep. Definitely a bad case of brain conflatulence on my part.


The former present much more of a problem, since the code
is actually running on your system and in kernel mode, and can
therefore do do anything it wants to your system. This is not the
case

with firmware running on a card.

Celejar


Yes, I see the distinction now. Always good to learn something new.

--
Cheerio,

Klistvud
http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com
Certifiable Loonix User #481801 Please reply to the list, not to
me.



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Old 01-20-2011, 03:11 PM
Matthew Dawson
 
Default Mini-PCI WifiCard experience?

On Wednesday 19 January 2011 07:53:57 Michelle Konzack wrote:
>
> It seems OSS Developers give a fuck on GSM/WaveLAN security.
>
> I have a license for the 5,8 GHz range with 8 channels du to my Alvarion
> BeezeACCESS VL (I am WaveLAN provider) and habe problems with peoples
> manufacturing there own Wifi Transceivers. I have to sue them because
> the disrupet my telecommunication system which is a violation of german
> law and others.
>
> How can someone guarantie, the OSS driver are working and confrom to
> international law?
>

Actually, the kernel developers are working on properly supporting rules in regards to such issues. Check out there wiki page at:
http://wireless.kernel.org/en/developers/Regulatory

Matthew


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