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Old 10-08-2012, 12:42 PM
maximilian attems
 
Default Bug#688794: Circular dependancy after reboot when..

"Variables set by the user must have a name consisting solely of alphabet‐
ics, numerics, and underscores - the first of which must not be numeric."
- dash.1

it seems the initramfs-tools manpage added the "dash" along
the lines, which is wrong for this cornercase of /tmp noexec and
no busybox.
Then scripts are unfortunately variable names and thus should not
have dash in their names.

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maks


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Old 10-08-2012, 12:56 PM
Mihail Kasadjikov
 
Default Bug#688794: Circular dependancy after reboot when..

Hello!

I think the initrd scripts should be renamed to use "_" instead of "-".

WBR,
Mihail.


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Old 10-08-2012, 09:03 PM
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
 
Default Bug#688794: Circular dependancy after reboot when..

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012, maximilian attems wrote:
> "Variables set by the user must have a name consisting solely of alphabet‐
> ics, numerics, and underscores - the first of which must not be numeric."
> - dash.1
>
> it seems the initramfs-tools manpage added the "dash" along
> the lines, which is wrong for this cornercase of /tmp noexec and
> no busybox.
> Then scripts are unfortunately variable names and thus should not
> have dash in their names.

Well, I don't mind changing the name of the initramfs-tools helper scripts
in the *-microcode packages, but this _really_ needs to be documented in the
initramfs-tools manpages, AND it needs to generate an warning on
update-initramfs time. It is really non-obvious.

However, I do propose that instead of changing intel-microcode,
amd64-microcode, and any other packages present and future that might run
afoul of this restriction, the initramfs scripts should suitably transform
all valid script names so that they can be valid variable names.

Maybe it could internally replace all characters that are valid for package
names but not for variables with "_", or just skip any characters outside of
[a-zA-Z0-9_]. This has the advantage of being a central fix, and also
avoiding a very nasty breakage on a fallback mode of the initramfs that is
rarely exercised.

Also, I suggest that initramfs-tools should either provide tsort inside the
initramfs, or drop the code that conditionally uses it. That codepath could
be hiding landmines as well.

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh


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Old 10-09-2012, 07:44 AM
maximilian attems
 
Default Bug#688794: Circular dependancy after reboot when..

On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 06:03:20PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
>
> Well, I don't mind changing the name of the initramfs-tools helper scripts
> in the *-microcode packages,

please do so.

> but this _really_ needs to be documented in the
> initramfs-tools manpages, AND it needs to generate an warning on
> update-initramfs time. It is really non-obvious.

The corner case infact involves a noexec /var/tmp, which is why allmost
no one sees it.

> However, I do propose that instead of changing intel-microcode,
> amd64-microcode, and any other packages present and future that might run
> afoul of this restriction, the initramfs scripts should suitably transform
> all valid script names so that they can be valid variable names.

well oh well progress, we did issue a warning, but it went away,
because in the common cases it does work.

> Maybe it could internally replace all characters that are valid for package
> names but not for variables with "_", or just skip any characters outside of
> [a-zA-Z0-9_]. This has the advantage of being a central fix, and also
> avoiding a very nasty breakage on a fallback mode of the initramfs that is
> rarely exercised.

This is a good suggestion postfreeze if that path doesn't go away on
it's own.

> Also, I suggest that initramfs-tools should either provide tsort inside the
> initramfs, or drop the code that conditionally uses it. That codepath could
> be hiding landmines as well.

The landmines are that this codepath is real crap, still dating jbailey.
No way we going to touch that at this point of the release.

Best,

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maks


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Old 10-09-2012, 10:26 AM
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
 
Default Bug#688794: Circular dependancy after reboot when..

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012, maximilian attems wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 06:03:20PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> > Well, I don't mind changing the name of the initramfs-tools helper scripts
> > in the *-microcode packages,
>
> please do so.

As long as the release managers agree. I will try.

> > but this _really_ needs to be documented in the
> > initramfs-tools manpages, AND it needs to generate an warning on
> > update-initramfs time. It is really non-obvious.
>
> The corner case infact involves a noexec /var/tmp, which is why allmost
> no one sees it.

This makes it worse. Please document this now, an upload that only changes
manpages and static docs in /usr/share/doc is not going to endanger the
freeze.

> > However, I do propose that instead of changing intel-microcode,
> > amd64-microcode, and any other packages present and future that might run
> > afoul of this restriction, the initramfs scripts should suitably transform
> > all valid script names so that they can be valid variable names.
>
> well oh well progress, we did issue a warning, but it went away,
> because in the common cases it does work.

?!!

> > Also, I suggest that initramfs-tools should either provide tsort inside the
> > initramfs, or drop the code that conditionally uses it. That codepath could
> > be hiding landmines as well.
>
> The landmines are that this codepath is real crap, still dating jbailey.
> No way we going to touch that at this point of the release.

You're aware that post-freeze or not, the fix for this kind of crap needs to
go to stable, I hope. So it is either fix it during the freeze, or fix it
through stable-proposed-updates.

>From what I can see, the only fix that is not going to over-complicate
things is to make sure update-initramfs will ALWAYS create the ORDER file,
and remove the other two codepaths from scripts/functions. If the ORDER
file is missing, the initramfs code should try to run things in C collation
order, as that has at least a non-zero chance of working, and therefore it
is MUCH better than dying with an error message *during boot*.

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh


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Old 10-09-2012, 11:34 AM
Lionel Gamay
 
Default Bug#688794: Circular dependancy after reboot when..

There is a partial workaround for the case of a noexec /tmp or /var/tmp
that I found in the mkinitramfs manpage and used to circumvent this
problem: using/adding TMPDIR in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf and
make it point to an "exec" dir.

Unfortunately, this tip is not repeated where it belongs, either on
initramfs.conf manpage or as a comment in the initramfs.conf file
itself.

My 2 cents.

Lionel


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Old 10-09-2012, 12:47 PM
maximilian attems
 
Default Bug#688794: Circular dependancy after reboot when..

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 07:26:47AM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Oct 2012, maximilian attems wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 06:03:20PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> > > Well, I don't mind changing the name of the initramfs-tools helper scripts
> > > in the *-microcode packages,
> >
> > please do so.
>
> As long as the release managers agree. I will try.

Of course they will as it only your package that triggers this bug.

> > > but this _really_ needs to be documented in the
> > > initramfs-tools manpages, AND it needs to generate an warning on
> > > update-initramfs time. It is really non-obvious.
> >
> > The corner case infact involves a noexec /var/tmp, which is why allmost
> > no one sees it.
>
> This makes it worse. Please document this now, an upload that only changes
> manpages and static docs in /usr/share/doc is not going to endanger the
> freeze.

All the known scripts ship with proper names thus it is not such
a big deal for the stable release itself.
The cornercase is thus smaller than epislon.

It's up to mikap if he retracts his doc change.


> > > Also, I suggest that initramfs-tools should either provide tsort inside the
> > > initramfs, or drop the code that conditionally uses it. That codepath could
> > > be hiding landmines as well.
> >
> > The landmines are that this codepath is real crap, still dating jbailey.
> > No way we going to touch that at this point of the release.
>
> You're aware that post-freeze or not, the fix for this kind of crap needs to
> go to stable, I hope. So it is either fix it during the freeze, or fix it
> through stable-proposed-updates.

If you care about it, please send patches. I'd be very welcome to review
test and apply them.
http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=kernel/initramfs-tools.git;a=summary


> >From what I can see, the only fix that is not going to over-complicate
> things is to make sure update-initramfs will ALWAYS create the ORDER file,
> and remove the other two codepaths from scripts/functions. If the ORDER
> file is missing, the initramfs code should try to run things in C collation
> order, as that has at least a non-zero chance of working, and therefore it
> is MUCH better than dying with an error message *during boot*.

I totaly do agree, that was what I was implying.

On a related note this !lkml, please keep cool.
happy hacking,

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maks


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Old 10-09-2012, 02:19 PM
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
 
Default Bug#688794: Circular dependancy after reboot when..

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012, maximilian attems wrote:
> > On Tue, 09 Oct 2012, maximilian attems wrote:
> > > On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 06:03:20PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> > > > Well, I don't mind changing the name of the initramfs-tools helper scripts
> > > > in the *-microcode packages,
> > >
> > > please do so.
> >
> > As long as the release managers agree. I will try.
>
> Of course they will as it only your package that triggers this bug.

For now. "-" is common in package names, much more than "_". It *will*
happen again if left as-is.

If anything at all (update-initramfs, documentation or even lintian) either
mentioned or warned about this pitfall, it wouldn't have happened to
intel-microcode and amd64-microcode.

FWIW, I have already uploaded intel-microcode and amd64-microcode packages
that work around the bug, and I will bug the Wheezy release-managers about
it 10 days from now. I definately own them a beer or two already. And I
have to bug the Ubuntu release-managers for a freeze exception there too :-(

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh


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