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Old 06-24-2012, 06:41 AM
 
Default Bug#678731: linux-2.6: Please build dummy_hcd and g_mass_storage modules

Package: linux-2.6
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: tails-dev@boum.org
User: tails-dev@boum.org
Usertags: testing

Hi!

Please build dummy_hcd and g_mass_storage modules.

The USB dummy HCD and Mass Storage Gadget would be very useful to
implement automated testing of Live systems such as Tails [0], where
some features are only available when installed on USB: it would be
great to avoid plugging a bunch of real USB sticks into an server in
a datacenter, while the Linux kernel has the needed functionality to
emulate such hardware.

Thank you.

[0] https://tails.boum.org/
[1] https://mailman.boum.org/pipermail/tails-dev/2012-June/001320.html



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Old 06-24-2012, 10:12 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Bug#678731: linux-2.6: Please build dummy_hcd and g_mass_storage modules

On Sun, 2012-06-24 at 08:41 +0200, intrigeri@debian.org wrote:
> Package: linux-2.6
> Severity: wishlist
> X-Debbugs-CC: tails-dev@boum.org
> User: tails-dev@boum.org
> Usertags: testing
>
> Hi!
>
> Please build dummy_hcd and g_mass_storage modules.
>
> The USB dummy HCD and Mass Storage Gadget would be very useful to
> implement automated testing of Live systems such as Tails [0], where
> some features are only available when installed on USB: it would be
> great to avoid plugging a bunch of real USB sticks into an server in
> a datacenter, while the Linux kernel has the needed functionality to
> emulate such hardware.

Couldn't you also use usbip for this?

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
I say we take off; nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 03:36 AM
intrigeri
 
Default Bug#678731: linux-2.6: Please build dummy_hcd and g_mass_storage modules

Hi Ben,

Ben Hutchings wrote (24 Jun 2012 22:12:00 GMT) :
> Couldn't you also use usbip for this?

Thank you for mentionning usbip, I did not know about it!
After a quick look at it, I must say I'm happy to learn about it, and
I may use it for unrelated tasks, but it does not really seem to be
fit for the Live USB system autotesting usecase.

E.g. it looks like it's not easily possible to boot a VM from a USB
stick shared with the VM using usbip, is it? (I've successfully booted
a VM using libvirt/qemu-kvm's USB 2.0 passthrough feature, from
a virtual USB stick emulated by g_mass_storage. This is the kind of
things we need to automatically test.)

And, even if it was, as far as I understand it, moving a bunch of
bare-metal USB sticks from some an always-on server in a datacenter to
another one, and sharing the stick over IP, is no solution for us: our
problem is to avoid plugging a bunch of bare-metal USB sticks into
a server in a datacenter, in the first place.

So, unfortunately, it looks like no existing solution currently in
Debian is good enough for our needs.



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Old 06-27-2012, 03:32 AM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Bug#678731: linux-2.6: Please build dummy_hcd and g_mass_storage modules

On Mon, 2012-06-25 at 05:36 +0200, intrigeri wrote:
> Hi Ben,
>
> Ben Hutchings wrote (24 Jun 2012 22:12:00 GMT) :
> > Couldn't you also use usbip for this?
>
> Thank you for mentionning usbip, I did not know about it!
> After a quick look at it, I must say I'm happy to learn about it, and
> I may use it for unrelated tasks, but it does not really seem to be
> fit for the Live USB system autotesting usecase.
>
> E.g. it looks like it's not easily possible to boot a VM from a USB
> stick shared with the VM using usbip, is it?

I don't know; probably not.

[...]
> And, even if it was, as far as I understand it, moving a bunch of
> bare-metal USB sticks from some an always-on server in a datacenter to
> another one, and sharing the stick over IP, is no solution for us: our
> problem is to avoid plugging a bunch of bare-metal USB sticks into
> a server in a datacenter, in the first place.
>
> So, unfortunately, it looks like no existing solution currently in
> Debian is good enough for our needs.

Yes, but I think it would make more sense to emulate a USB storage
device in qemu rather than the host kernel.

I don't know; would be interested to hear other people's opinions on
this.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Lowery's Law:
If it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway.
 
Old 06-27-2012, 11:00 AM
 
Default Bug#678731: linux-2.6: Please build dummy_hcd and g_mass_storage modules

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 04:32:31AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-06-25 at 05:36 +0200, intrigeri wrote:
> > And, even if it was, as far as I understand it, moving a bunch of
> > bare-metal USB sticks from some an always-on server in a datacenter to
> > another one, and sharing the stick over IP, is no solution for us: our
> > problem is to avoid plugging a bunch of bare-metal USB sticks into
> > a server in a datacenter, in the first place.
> >
> > So, unfortunately, it looks like no existing solution currently in
> > Debian is good enough for our needs.
>
> Yes, but I think it would make more sense to emulate a USB storage
> device in qemu rather than the host kernel.
>
> I don't know; would be interested to hear other people's opinions on
> this.

AFAIK, you're right, qemu can emulate USB, but it's quite slow, not really
completely implemented yet, and I haven't found a way to boot on such an
emulated usb device in the VM. Sounds like it's more usefull when you want
to hot{plus,unplug} USB devices in a running VM.

So it doesn't appear so reliable nor covering our use cases compared to
the kernel module we are talking about, which is in the kernel tree since
a lot of time and as such is more stable.

I believe that adding this module to the Debian kernel might also be
usefull for Debian Live, but I don't want to speak for them.

bert.



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Old 06-28-2012, 07:48 PM
intrigeri
 
Default Bug#678731: linux-2.6: Please build dummy_hcd and g_mass_storage modules

Hi,

bertagaz@ptitcanardnoir.org wrote (27 Jun 2012 11:00:22 GMT) :
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 04:32:31AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:

>> Yes, but I think it would make more sense to emulate a USB storage
>> device in qemu rather than the host kernel.

I do agree.

bertagaz and I have spent a bit more time testing and comparing the
available options. Our results are summed up there:
https://tails.boum.org/todo/automated_builds_and_tests/USB/

tl;dr --> as far as Wheezy is concerned:
* qemu-kvm emulates just fine a USB 2.0 mass storage device, and
knows how to boot from it; personally, I'd rather use that than
a dedicated kernel module.
* with qemu-kvm on the command-line: no need for an additional
kernel module
* with a libvirt stack: a missing interface in some abstraction
layer makes it a pain to use the qemu-kvm USB emulation of
removable mass storage devices.

We are going to request the missing interface to upstream libvirt,
but it's unlikely the result thereof is ready in time for Wheezy.

So, with my Tails developer hat, we would be happy to use
g_mass_storage at least from now to the Wheezy+1 release.

> I don't know; would be interested to hear other people's opinions
> on this.

I'd be interested too!

Cc'ing the Debian Live mailing-list, as there may be folks there who
have experience on this topic.

Perhaps debian-boot and/or debian-installer should be added to the mix
as well, what do you think?



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Old 06-29-2012, 12:29 AM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Bug#678731: linux-2.6: Please build dummy_hcd and g_mass_storage modules

On Thu, 2012-06-28 at 21:48 +0200, intrigeri wrote:
> Hi,
>
> bertagaz@ptitcanardnoir.org wrote (27 Jun 2012 11:00:22 GMT) :
> > On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 04:32:31AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>
> >> Yes, but I think it would make more sense to emulate a USB storage
> >> device in qemu rather than the host kernel.
>
> I do agree.
>
> bertagaz and I have spent a bit more time testing and comparing the
> available options. Our results are summed up there:
> https://tails.boum.org/todo/automated_builds_and_tests/USB/
>
> tl;dr --> as far as Wheezy is concerned:
> * qemu-kvm emulates just fine a USB 2.0 mass storage device, and
> knows how to boot from it; personally, I'd rather use that than
> a dedicated kernel module.
> * with qemu-kvm on the command-line: no need for an additional
> kernel module
> * with a libvirt stack: a missing interface in some abstraction
> layer makes it a pain to use the qemu-kvm USB emulation of
> removable mass storage devices.
>
> We are going to request the missing interface to upstream libvirt,
> but it's unlikely the result thereof is ready in time for Wheezy.
>
> So, with my Tails developer hat, we would be happy to use
> g_mass_storage at least from now to the Wheezy+1 release.
[...]

So you're asking for extra kernel modules to work around a libvirt
deficiency, not even a missing feature in qemu?

I think this is ridiculous.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Lowery's Law:
If it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway.
 

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