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Old 02-10-2012, 06:41 PM
Jonathan Nieder
 
Default Bug#659378: gnome-shell fails to start

Hi,

Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:

> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
> 0x00007fffe9310674 in ?? ()
> from /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnvidia-glcore.so.290.10

You're using the nvidia driver; this is not going to work. Can you
reproduce this using nouveau? What is your graphics card? (Please
attach output from

reportbug --template linux-image-$(uname -r)

so we can get to know your hardware.)

Hope that helps,
Jonathan



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Old 02-10-2012, 08:13 PM
Panayiotis Karabassis
 
Default Bug#659378: gnome-shell fails to start

On 02/10/2012 09:41 PM, Jonathan Nieder wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:
>
>> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
>> 0x00007fffe9310674 in ?? ()
>> from /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnvidia-glcore.so.290.10
>
> You're using the nvidia driver; this is not going to work.

Are you sure? On my laptop which has the same configuration (Wheezy,
nvidia, gnome-shell) I can login without problems (I haven't tried
setting up a domU though).

> Can you
> reproduce this using nouveau?

With nouveau the X server doesn't start at all. It just shows a flashing
underscore in the top-left corner (no errors in Xorg.0.log though). With
nvidia the crash happens after login and before the interface appears.

> What is your graphics card? (Please
> attach output from
>
> reportbug --template linux-image-$(uname -r)
>
> so we can get to know your hardware.)

I hope I did it right, I redirected output to a file.

> Hope that helps,
> Jonathan

--
Many thanks,
Panayiotis Karabassis
 
Old 02-10-2012, 08:15 PM
Panayiotis Karabassis
 
Default Bug#659378: gnome-shell fails to start

On 02/10/2012 11:13 PM, Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:
> On 02/10/2012 09:41 PM, Jonathan Nieder wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:
>>
>>> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
>>> 0x00007fffe9310674 in ?? ()
>>> from /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnvidia-glcore.so.290.10
>>
>> You're using the nvidia driver; this is not going to work.
>
> Are you sure? On my laptop which has the same configuration (Wheezy,
> nvidia, gnome-shell) I can login without problems (I haven't tried
> setting up a domU though).
>
>> Can you
>> reproduce this using nouveau?
>
> With nouveau the X server doesn't start at all. It just shows a flashing
> underscore in the top-left corner (no errors in Xorg.0.log though). With
> nvidia the crash happens after login and before the interface appears.
>
>> What is your graphics card?

Sorry I forgot, it's GeForce GT 440.

>> (Please
>> attach output from
>>
>> reportbug --template linux-image-$(uname -r)
>>
>> so we can get to know your hardware.)
>
> I hope I did it right, I redirected output to a file.
>
>> Hope that helps,
>> Jonathan
>


--
Best regards,
Panayiotis Karabassis



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Old 02-10-2012, 10:01 PM
Jonathan Nieder
 
Default Bug#659378: gnome-shell fails to start

Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:
> On 02/10/2012 11:13 PM, Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:
>> On 02/10/2012 09:41 PM, Jonathan Nieder wrote:

>>> You're using the nvidia driver; this is not going to work.
>>
>> Are you sure? On my laptop which has the same configuration (Wheezy,
>> nvidia, gnome-shell) I can login without problems (I haven't tried
>> setting up a domU though).

My information may be out of date.

The kernel team does not support the nvidia driver, since we do not
have access to its source code and cannot predict what it will do. If
you are interested in pursuing a fix from that end, please feel free
to file a bug against src:nvidia-graphics-drivers, and the maintainers
might be able to point you in the right direction.

*searches* Ah, looks like this is already filed as [1], so you can
follow up there if you have ideas for moving forward on that.

As a nouveau user, of course I'm biased and prefer it. ;-)

[...]
> Sorry I forgot, it's GeForce GT 440.

Thanks. So this is an NVC3.

There has been some important relevant work in v3.3-rc2. Could you
test a 3.3-rc2 or newer kernel from kernel.org? See [2] for
instructions.

Thanks very much,
Jonathan

[1] http://bugs.debian.org/570365
[2] http://kernel-handbook.alioth.debian.org/ch-common-tasks.html#s-kernel-org-package
or the corresponding page in the debian-kernel-handbook package



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Old 02-11-2012, 11:36 AM
Panayiotis Karabassis
 
Default Bug#659378: gnome-shell fails to start

On 02/11/2012 01:01 AM, Jonathan Nieder wrote:

Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:

On 02/10/2012 11:13 PM, Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:

On 02/10/2012 09:41 PM, Jonathan Nieder wrote:

You're using the nvidia driver; this is not going to work.

Are you sure? On my laptop which has the same configuration (Wheezy,
nvidia, gnome-shell) I can login without problems (I haven't tried
setting up a domU though).

My information may be out of date.

The kernel team does not support the nvidia driver, since we do not
have access to its source code and cannot predict what it will do. If
you are interested in pursuing a fix from that end, please feel free
to file a bug against src:nvidia-graphics-drivers, and the maintainers
might be able to point you in the right direction.

*searches* Ah, looks like this is already filed as [1], so you can
follow up there if you have ideas for moving forward on that.

As a nouveau user, of course I'm biased and prefer it. ;-)
That making software free is making software better -and not only
technically- is obvious. But we are at the mercy of the hardware
manufacturers, at least for now, and the nouveau developers have a much
more difficult task to achieve that the nvidia developers.


My (ambitious) goal is to setup a windoze domU with VGA passthrough to
play games in, because I refuse to dual-boot. I could be wrong, but I
assumed that the driver used by the dom0 would have an effect on the
performance of the domU. And I think that adding another proprietary
program to a chain of proprietary programs is not a grave offense.

[...]

Sorry I forgot, it's GeForce GT 440.

Thanks. So this is an NVC3.

There has been some important relevant work in v3.3-rc2. Could you
test a 3.3-rc2 or newer kernel from kernel.org? See [2] for
instructions.
Thanks, but it didn't work (assuming I didn't make a mistake compiling
the kernel). I am confident that this will be fixed as newer kernels or
binary drivers become available. Will you leave this report open until
then, in case someone else has the same problem?

Thanks very much,
Jonathan


I am the one that must thank you! ;-)

Best regards, Panayiotis

[1] http://bugs.debian.org/570365
[2] http://kernel-handbook.alioth.debian.org/ch-common-tasks.html#s-kernel-org-package
or the corresponding page in the debian-kernel-handbook package





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Old 02-11-2012, 11:51 AM
Jonathan Nieder
 
Default Bug#659378: gnome-shell fails to start

Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:

> That making software free is making software better -and not only
> technically- is obvious. But we are at the mercy of the hardware
> manufacturers, at least for now, and the nouveau developers have a
> much more difficult task to achieve that the nvidia developers.

Sorry, I think I was unclear. I actually only meant that:

- ordinary upstream Linux kernel, Xen, and X developers are able to
understand the nouveau driver and not the nvidia driver, and in my
experience presumably for this reason they refuse to even humor
reports about the latter

- as I mentioned, there has been recent work on getting nouveau
working in a Xen dom0. And I have not heard of any work in this
direction for the nvidia driver stack.

I don't actually believe nouveau is fundamentally better for humanity
than the nvidia driver. In a way, they are a collaborative effort ---
nvidia cannot release specs, so they provide a port of their Windows
driver which the nouveau developers can reverse-engineer to produce
a driver that uses the usual Linux interfaces.

[...]
>> There has been some important relevant work in v3.3-rc2. Could you
>> test a 3.3-rc2 or newer kernel from kernel.org? See [2] for
>> instructions.
>
> Thanks, but it didn't work (assuming I didn't make a mistake
> compiling the kernel).

There's only been relevant work in that version for nouveau (and other
drivers that use ttm, like the radeon and i915 drivers). Did you test
with nouveau? If so, could you say a little more about how it didn't
work?

> I am confident that this will be fixed as
> newer kernels or binary drivers become available. Will you leave
> this report open until then, in case someone else has the same
> problem?

Do you mean that you would like the Debian kernel team to keep track
of when a driver they have nothing to do with gets fixed and let you
know? I'm sorry, but they don't have time for that, and as I
mentioned before, there is already a bug filed against the appropriate
package (bug#570365).

Hoping that clarifies a little,
Jonathan



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Old 02-11-2012, 12:11 PM
Ian Campbell
 
Default Bug#659378: gnome-shell fails to start

On Sat, 2012-02-11 at 14:36 +0200, Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:
> My (ambitious) goal is to setup a windoze domU with VGA passthrough to
> play games in, because I refuse to dual-boot. I could be wrong, but I
> assumed that the driver used by the dom0 would have an effect on the
> performance of the domU.

If you are passing the card through then no h/w specific driver in dom0
will even see it (technically speaking the dom0 driver is "xen-pciback",
which is not something h/w specific), only the driver in the guest
domain would make any difference.

I've never used VGA passthrough myself but as an observer it seems to me
that there are plenty of other pitfalls and gotchas with doing VGA
passthrough though than just the driver which you use. I suggest you
contact the upstream xen-users list (http://lists.xen.org) rather than
the Debian lists since you are more likely to find those who can help
there than anywhere around here.

> And I think that adding another proprietary
> program to a chain of proprietary programs is not a grave offense.

That is your prerogative but you cannot then expect that Debian will
support you once you have taken this path.

Ian.

--
Ian Campbell


BOFH excuse #179:

multicasts on broken packets




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Old 02-11-2012, 12:18 PM
Ian Campbell
 
Default Bug#659378: gnome-shell fails to start

On Sat, 2012-02-11 at 06:51 -0600, Jonathan Nieder wrote:
> [...]
> >> There has been some important relevant work in v3.3-rc2. Could you
> >> test a 3.3-rc2 or newer kernel from kernel.org? See [2] for
> >> instructions.
> >
> > Thanks, but it didn't work (assuming I didn't make a mistake
> > compiling the kernel).
>
> There's only been relevant work in that version for nouveau (and other
> drivers that use ttm, like the radeon and i915 drivers). Did you test
> with nouveau? If so, could you say a little more about how it didn't
> work?

If Nouveau doesn't work with a recent kernel like 3.3-rc2 then I am sure
that Konrad (Xen Linux maintainer), LKML and xen-devel would be
interested in a full bug report.

Also The upstream wiki also contains a fair bit of information on the
status of graphics with upstream kernels and in-tree drivers such as
Nouveau, e.g. http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/XenPVOPSDRM which you may find
helpful.

If you have problems with the proprietary Nvidia driver then your only
real recourse is to report the bug to Nvidia, nobody else (that includes
Debian and Xen upstream) has access to the necessary source code to do
anything about it.

Ian.
--
Ian Campbell


... A solemn, unsmiling, sanctimonious old iceberg who looked like he
was waiting for a vacancy in the Trinity.
-- Mark Twain




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Old 02-11-2012, 01:07 PM
Panayiotis Karabassis
 
Default Bug#659378: gnome-shell fails to start

On 02/11/2012 02:51 PM, Jonathan Nieder wrote:
> Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:
>
>> That making software free is making software better -and not only
>> technically- is obvious. But we are at the mercy of the hardware
>> manufacturers, at least for now, and the nouveau developers have a
>> much more difficult task to achieve that the nvidia developers.
>
> Sorry, I think I was unclear. I actually only meant that:
>
> - ordinary upstream Linux kernel, Xen, and X developers are able to
> understand the nouveau driver and not the nvidia driver, and in my
> experience presumably for this reason they refuse to even humor
> reports about the latter
>
> - as I mentioned, there has been recent work on getting nouveau
> working in a Xen dom0. And I have not heard of any work in this
> direction for the nvidia driver stack.
>
> I don't actually believe nouveau is fundamentally better for humanity
> than the nvidia driver.

I am sorry, but I do. I consider non-free software to be fundamentally
immoral, and more so the practice of using it, as in this case, to
trespass on my freedom to use my (more than justly paid) hardware with
whatever OS I feel like.

> In a way, they are a collaborative effort ---
> nvidia cannot release specs, so they provide a port of their Windows
> driver which the nouveau developers can reverse-engineer to produce
> a driver that uses the usual Linux interfaces.

I would argue that nvidia merely does not *want* to release their specs,
and that this is a practice that is hurting the industry.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion, and this is a bug report, not
a political forum.


> [...]
>>> There has been some important relevant work in v3.3-rc2. Could you
>>> test a 3.3-rc2 or newer kernel from kernel.org? See [2] for
>>> instructions.
>>
>> Thanks, but it didn't work (assuming I didn't make a mistake
>> compiling the kernel).
>
> There's only been relevant work in that version for nouveau (and other
> drivers that use ttm, like the radeon and i915 drivers). Did you test
> with nouveau? If so, could you say a little more about how it didn't
> work?

Yes I am sorry, but the nouveau driver does not work at all with my
machine, 3.1 or 3.3 kernel, Xen or no Xen. The X server does not start
at all, I get a black screen with an underscore flashing. Let me know if
you want more information.

>> I am confident that this will be fixed as
>> newer kernels or binary drivers become available. Will you leave
>> this report open until then, in case someone else has the same
>> problem?
>
> Do you mean that you would like the Debian kernel team to keep track
> of when a driver they have nothing to do with gets fixed and let you
> know? I'm sorry, but they don't have time for that, and as I
> mentioned before, there is already a bug filed against the appropriate
> package (bug#570365).

Yes I am sorry, I forgot about the other bug report.

> Hoping that clarifies a little,
> Jonathan

--
Best regards,
Panayiotis Karabassis



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Old 02-11-2012, 01:15 PM
Panayiotis Karabassis
 
Default Bug#659378: gnome-shell fails to start

On 02/11/2012 03:11 PM, Ian Campbell wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-02-11 at 14:36 +0200, Panayiotis Karabassis wrote:
>> My (ambitious) goal is to setup a windoze domU with VGA passthrough to
>> play games in, because I refuse to dual-boot. I could be wrong, but I
>> assumed that the driver used by the dom0 would have an effect on the
>> performance of the domU.
>
> If you are passing the card through then no h/w specific driver in dom0
> will even see it (technically speaking the dom0 driver is "xen-pciback",
> which is not something h/w specific), only the driver in the guest
> domain would make any difference.

Thanks, this is an answer I could not have easily found on the web.

> I've never used VGA passthrough myself but as an observer it seems to me
> that there are plenty of other pitfalls and gotchas with doing VGA
> passthrough though than just the driver which you use. I suggest you
> contact the upstream xen-users list (http://lists.xen.org) rather than
> the Debian lists since you are more likely to find those who can help
> there than anywhere around here.
>
>> And I think that adding another proprietary
>> program to a chain of proprietary programs is not a grave offense.
>
> That is your prerogative but you cannot then expect that Debian will
> support you once you have taken this path.
>
> Ian.

I'll open a new bug report for the people you mentioned, since nouveau
does not work either.

--
Best regards,
Panayiotis Karabassis



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