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Old 11-23-2011, 09:27 AM
Goswin von Brederlow
 
Default Increasing minimum 'i386' processor

Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> writes:

> On 11/19/2011 11:42 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>> The i386 architecture was the first in Linux and in Debian, but we have
>> long since dropped support for the original i386-compatible processors
>> and now require a minimum of a 486-class processor.
>>
>> I think it is time to increase the minimum requirement to 586-class, if
>> not for wheezy then immediately after.
>
> note that squeeze is built this way, and single packages like openjdk only build
> for 586.
>
>> (Later it should be increased
>> further, and eventually i386 should be reduced to a partial architecture
>> that may be installed on amd64 systems.) This would allow the use of
>> optimisations and new instructions throughout userland that improve
>> performance for the vast majority of users.
>
> could you give numbers what kind of improvements you would expect? The biggest
> burden for i386 is the register pressure, which you won't fix with targeting a
> newer processor. The better approach would be a new port, the x32 architecture;
> I don't know if anybody did look into building a distribution for this
> architecture yet. The next thing could be to default to sse2 math instead of
> x87 (didn't look if this is already the default for x32).
>
> Matthias

Where the relevant patches added to binutils and gcc for this?

MfG
Goswin


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Old 11-23-2011, 09:27 AM
Goswin von Brederlow
 
Default Increasing minimum 'i386' processor

Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> writes:

> On 11/19/2011 11:42 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>> The i386 architecture was the first in Linux and in Debian, but we have
>> long since dropped support for the original i386-compatible processors
>> and now require a minimum of a 486-class processor.
>>
>> I think it is time to increase the minimum requirement to 586-class, if
>> not for wheezy then immediately after.
>
> note that squeeze is built this way, and single packages like openjdk only build
> for 586.
>
>> (Later it should be increased
>> further, and eventually i386 should be reduced to a partial architecture
>> that may be installed on amd64 systems.) This would allow the use of
>> optimisations and new instructions throughout userland that improve
>> performance for the vast majority of users.
>
> could you give numbers what kind of improvements you would expect? The biggest
> burden for i386 is the register pressure, which you won't fix with targeting a
> newer processor. The better approach would be a new port, the x32 architecture;
> I don't know if anybody did look into building a distribution for this
> architecture yet. The next thing could be to default to sse2 math instead of
> x87 (didn't look if this is already the default for x32).
>
> Matthias

Where the relevant patches added to binutils and gcc for this?

MfG
Goswin


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Old 11-23-2011, 11:24 AM
Peter Samuelson
 
Default Increasing minimum 'i386' processor

[Goswin von Brederlow]
> Where the relevant patches added to binutils and gcc for this?

See for yourself: http://sites.google.com/site/x32abi/

--
Peter Samuelson | org-tld!p12n!peter | http://p12n.org/


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Old 11-23-2011, 11:24 AM
Peter Samuelson
 
Default Increasing minimum 'i386' processor

[Goswin von Brederlow]
> Where the relevant patches added to binutils and gcc for this?

See for yourself: http://sites.google.com/site/x32abi/

--
Peter Samuelson | org-tld!p12n!peter | http://p12n.org/


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Old 11-23-2011, 11:24 AM
Peter Samuelson
 
Default Increasing minimum 'i386' processor

[Goswin von Brederlow]
> Where the relevant patches added to binutils and gcc for this?

See for yourself: http://sites.google.com/site/x32abi/

--
Peter Samuelson | org-tld!p12n!peter | http://p12n.org/


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Old 11-23-2011, 01:21 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Increasing minimum 'i386' processor

On Wed, 2011-11-23 at 00:44 +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
> On 11/19/2011 11:42 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > The i386 architecture was the first in Linux and in Debian, but we have
> > long since dropped support for the original i386-compatible processors
> > and now require a minimum of a 486-class processor.
> >
> > I think it is time to increase the minimum requirement to 586-class, if
> > not for wheezy then immediately after.
>
> note that squeeze is built this way, and single packages like openjdk only build
> for 586.

So I was told. I must have missed the discussion of this prior to the
change. Somehow it seems to be missing from the release notes too.

> > (Later it should be increased
> > further, and eventually i386 should be reduced to a partial architecture
> > that may be installed on amd64 systems.) This would allow the use of
> > optimisations and new instructions throughout userland that improve
> > performance for the vast majority of users.
>
> could you give numbers what kind of improvements you would expect?
[...]

That I don't know.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Teamwork is essential - it allows you to blame someone else.
 
Old 11-23-2011, 01:21 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Increasing minimum 'i386' processor

On Wed, 2011-11-23 at 00:44 +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
> On 11/19/2011 11:42 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > The i386 architecture was the first in Linux and in Debian, but we have
> > long since dropped support for the original i386-compatible processors
> > and now require a minimum of a 486-class processor.
> >
> > I think it is time to increase the minimum requirement to 586-class, if
> > not for wheezy then immediately after.
>
> note that squeeze is built this way, and single packages like openjdk only build
> for 586.

So I was told. I must have missed the discussion of this prior to the
change. Somehow it seems to be missing from the release notes too.

> > (Later it should be increased
> > further, and eventually i386 should be reduced to a partial architecture
> > that may be installed on amd64 systems.) This would allow the use of
> > optimisations and new instructions throughout userland that improve
> > performance for the vast majority of users.
>
> could you give numbers what kind of improvements you would expect?
[...]

That I don't know.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Teamwork is essential - it allows you to blame someone else.
 
Old 11-23-2011, 01:21 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Increasing minimum 'i386' processor

On Wed, 2011-11-23 at 00:44 +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
> On 11/19/2011 11:42 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > The i386 architecture was the first in Linux and in Debian, but we have
> > long since dropped support for the original i386-compatible processors
> > and now require a minimum of a 486-class processor.
> >
> > I think it is time to increase the minimum requirement to 586-class, if
> > not for wheezy then immediately after.
>
> note that squeeze is built this way, and single packages like openjdk only build
> for 586.

So I was told. I must have missed the discussion of this prior to the
change. Somehow it seems to be missing from the release notes too.

> > (Later it should be increased
> > further, and eventually i386 should be reduced to a partial architecture
> > that may be installed on amd64 systems.) This would allow the use of
> > optimisations and new instructions throughout userland that improve
> > performance for the vast majority of users.
>
> could you give numbers what kind of improvements you would expect?
[...]

That I don't know.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Teamwork is essential - it allows you to blame someone else.
 

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