Linux Archive

Linux Archive (http://www.linux-archive.org/)
-   Debian Kernel (http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-kernel/)
-   -   Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware (http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-kernel/532936-bug-628676-firmware-nonfree-add-ti-connectivity-firmware.html)

Sebastian Reichel 05-31-2011 09:20 AM

Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
 
Package: firmware-nonfree
Version: 0.30
Severity: wishlist

Hi,

Please consider adding a package for ti-connectivity (which can be found
in the linux-firmware.git).

The firmware is needed for TI's WLAN module, which is mainly used on
mobile platforms (e.g. pandaboard, nokia n900).

-- Sebastian



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20110531092001.7796.97664.reportbug@earth.universe ">http://lists.debian.org/20110531092001.7796.97664.reportbug@earth.universe

Ben Hutchings 06-05-2011 05:06 AM

Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
 
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 11:20 +0200, Sebastian Reichel wrote:
> Package: firmware-nonfree
> Version: 0.30
> Severity: wishlist
>
> Hi,
>
> Please consider adding a package for ti-connectivity (which can be found
> in the linux-firmware.git).
>
> The firmware is needed for TI's WLAN module, which is mainly used on
> mobile platforms (e.g. pandaboard, nokia n900).

This firmware has a very problematic licence. It actually forbids
anyone to download the firmware without agreeing to the licence. We
have no way to ask users whether they agree to this before even
downloading the package. (We *do* have provision for presenting
licences before installation, as required for the Intel Pro Wireless
firmware.)

David, I'm rather surprised you accepted firmware into linux-firmware
with these terms, as it seems to mean that anyone cloning the repository
is expected to accept them.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it makes it worse.

David Woodhouse 06-05-2011 09:29 AM

Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
 
On Sun, 5 Jun 2011, Ben Hutchings wrote:

> This firmware has a very problematic licence. It actually forbids
> anyone to download the firmware without agreeing to the licence. We
> have no way to ask users whether they agree to this before even
> downloading the package.

"Do not download this unless you intend to comply with its licence" is
fairly much implicit in *anything* we distribute, isn't it? You only have
permission to copy GPL software *if* you comply with its licence.

> David, I'm rather surprised you accepted firmware into linux-firmware
> with these terms, as it seems to mean that anyone cloning the repository
> is expected to accept them.

I *do* expect anyone cloning the repository to comply with the indivual
licences for the components therein.

--
dwmw2




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: alpine.LFD.2.02.1106051023040.5554@localhost6.loca ldomain6">http://lists.debian.org/alpine.LFD.2.02.1106051023040.5554@localhost6.loca ldomain6

Ben Hutchings 06-05-2011 04:42 PM

Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
 
On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 10:29 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2011, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>
> > This firmware has a very problematic licence. It actually forbids
> > anyone to download the firmware without agreeing to the licence. We
> > have no way to ask users whether they agree to this before even
> > downloading the package.
>
> "Do not download this unless you intend to comply with its licence" is
> fairly much implicit in *anything* we distribute, isn't it? You only have
> permission to copy GPL software *if* you comply with its licence.

In reality every transfer over a network involves many transient copies
being made. However, I think that legally only the sender tends to be
held responsible for distributing or copying.

If the licence forbids downloading the firmware in certain circumstances
and if we assume that that is a valid term, then it seems to be the
responsibility of the sender to ensure that the recipient is aware of
and agrees to it before they download the firmware itself. You don't do
that. And we don't have a mechanism for it.

> > David, I'm rather surprised you accepted firmware into linux-firmware
> > with these terms, as it seems to mean that anyone cloning the repository
> > is expected to accept them.
>
> I *do* expect anyone cloning the repository to comply with the indivual
> licences for the components therein.

But you also allow anyone to clone it before seeing the licence terms
that may disallow that.

So far as I know, none of the other licence texts claim to restrict
recipients that don't use or redistribute the firmware.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it makes it worse.

David Woodhouse 06-05-2011 04:56 PM

Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
 
On Sun, 5 Jun 2011, Ben Hutchings wrote:

> In reality every transfer over a network involves many transient copies
> being made. However, I think that legally only the sender tends to be
> held responsible for distributing or copying.

It was sent to me by TI with the express intention of including it in the
git tree in that form.

> > I *do* expect anyone cloning the repository to comply with the indivual
> > licences for the components therein.
>
> But you also allow anyone to clone it before seeing the licence terms
> that may disallow that.
>
> So far as I know, none of the other licence texts claim to restrict
> recipients that don't use or redistribute the firmware.

If you do nothing with the firmware, but it merely exists in your clone of
the git tree (by virtue of TI's having deliberately put it there), what
exactly are you restricted from doing?

Why is this different to GPL'd firmware on which you violate the licence,
and lose your rights?

--
dwmw2




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: alpine.LFD.2.02.1106051751160.5554@localhost6.loca ldomain6">http://lists.debian.org/alpine.LFD.2.02.1106051751160.5554@localhost6.loca ldomain6

Ben Hutchings 06-05-2011 06:19 PM

Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
 
On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 17:56 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2011, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>
> > In reality every transfer over a network involves many transient copies
> > being made. However, I think that legally only the sender tends to be
> > held responsible for distributing or copying.
>
> It was sent to me by TI with the express intention of including it in the
> git tree in that form.

I understand that, but it doesn't match what the text says.

> > > I *do* expect anyone cloning the repository to comply with the indivual
> > > licences for the components therein.
> >
> > But you also allow anyone to clone it before seeing the licence terms
> > that may disallow that.
> >
> > So far as I know, none of the other licence texts claim to restrict
> > recipients that don't use or redistribute the firmware.
>
> If you do nothing with the firmware, but it merely exists in your clone of
> the git tree (by virtue of TI's having deliberately put it there), what
> exactly are you restricted from doing?

Possibly nothing - clause 1 seems to make you responsible for the
behaviour of downstream users (it says 'used' and not 'for use', so your
intent is irrelevant). And this applies just as much to any other
distributor.

> Why is this different to GPL'd firmware on which you violate the licence,
> and lose your rights?

The GPL is merely a licence. Recipients aren't expected to agree to it
unless they copy or modify (which would be a copyright violation, in the
absence of the licence). And your licence does not terminate if
downstream users exceed its terms.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it makes it worse.

Bjørn Mork 06-06-2011 11:37 AM

Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
 
David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org> writes:

> If you do nothing with the firmware, but it merely exists in your clone of
> the git tree (by virtue of TI's having deliberately put it there), what
> exactly are you restricted from doing?

Downloading the firmware.

That's only allowed if you are authorized and willing to accept the
license terms. Which you do not know about until after you've violated
them.

So what do I do if I download this firmware and find that I don't really
want to accept the license? If I don't accept it, then I have already
broken the license by downloading it without an intention to accept it.
Catch 22.

> Why is this different to GPL'd firmware on which you violate the licence,
> and lose your rights?

Because you cannot do that without having the opportunity to read the
license terms first. Merely downloading GPL'd software will never
violate the license, no matter what your intentions are.



Bjørn




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 87ipsjw5qn.fsf@nemi.mork.no">http://lists.debian.org/87ipsjw5qn.fsf@nemi.mork.no


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:12 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.