FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian Kernel

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 03-31-2011, 07:52 PM
Michael Dorrington
 
Default Suitability of the Debian Squeeze (and later) Linux kernel for gNewSense. Was (no subject)

Karl Goetz wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:42:41 -0300
> "Emiliano M. Rudenick" <emilianorudenick@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> We don't have a free kernel in the archive yet, but you could
>>> easily install linux-libre of your own accord.
>>> thanks,
>>> kk
>
>> The kernel that comes default in Debian Squeeze is completely free.
>
> The kernel produced by linux-libre, and the kernel produced by debian
> differ. This doesn't inherantly mean debians kernel is meant to
> be non-free, but it does mean there is some confusion between the
> projects which will have to be worked out. If we can use debians kernel
> unaltered thats fantastic, but i'm still trying to find someone who
> knows kernels (not me) to compare them and tell us if thats ok.
> thanks,
> kk

AFAICT, the Debian kernel complies with the DFSG (or is extremely
close). However, it retains drivers that require a firmware in order to
be functional and where no free firmware currently exists for them. So
if you don't considered Debian to be a "Free GNU/Linux distribution"
then, I think, you won't considered the Debian kernel to be suitable for
gNewSense.

Regards,
Mike.

>> "Another first is the completely free Linux kernel, which no longer
>> contains problematic firmware files. These were split out into
>> separate packages and moved out of the Debian main archive into the
>> non-free area of our archive, which is not enabled by default. In
>> this way Debian users have the possibility of running a completely
>> free operating system, but may still choose to use non-free firmware
>> files if necessary."
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> gNewSense-users mailing list
> gNewSense-users@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnewsense-users
 
Old 04-04-2011, 12:21 PM
Karl Goetz
 
Default Suitability of the Debian Squeeze (and later) Linux kernel for gNewSense. Was (no subject)

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:52:39 +0100
Michael Dorrington <michael.dorrington@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Karl Goetz wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:42:41 -0300
> > "Emiliano M. Rudenick" <emilianorudenick@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> We don't have a free kernel in the archive yet, but you could
> >>> easily install linux-libre of your own accord.
> >>> thanks,
> >>> kk
> >
> >> The kernel that comes default in Debian Squeeze is completely free.
> >
> > The kernel produced by linux-libre, and the kernel produced by
> > debian differ. This doesn't inherantly mean debians kernel is meant
> > to be non-free, but it does mean there is some confusion between the
> > projects which will have to be worked out. If we can use debians
> > kernel unaltered thats fantastic, but i'm still trying to find
> > someone who knows kernels (not me) to compare them and tell us if
> > thats ok. thanks,
> > kk

Hi mike,
thanks for the reply.

>
> AFAICT, the Debian kernel complies with the DFSG (or is extremely
> close). However, it retains drivers that require a firmware in order
> to be functional and where no free firmware currently exists for
> them. So if you don't considered Debian to be a "Free GNU/Linux
> distribution" then, I think, you won't considered the Debian kernel
> to be suitable for gNewSense.

Does this mean 'retained in tree', or is it the stuff with no free
firmware in the non-free packages?
thanks,
kk

--
Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS)
Debian contributor / gNewSense Maintainer
http://www.kgoetz.id.au
No, I won't join your social networking group
 
Old 04-04-2011, 03:19 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Suitability of the Debian Squeeze (and later) Linux kernel for gNewSense. Was (no subject)

On Mon, Apr 04, 2011 at 09:51:16PM +0930, Karl Goetz wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:52:39 +0100
> Michael Dorrington <michael.dorrington@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> > AFAICT, the Debian kernel complies with the DFSG (or is extremely
> > close). However, it retains drivers that require a firmware in order
> > to be functional and where no free firmware currently exists for
> > them. So if you don't considered Debian to be a "Free GNU/Linux
> > distribution" then, I think, you won't considered the Debian kernel
> > to be suitable for gNewSense.
>
> Does this mean 'retained in tree', or is it the stuff with no free
> firmware in the non-free packages?

Practically all modern peripherals run firmware, usually loaded from
EEPROM or flash, and almost always non-free. So the question is not
whether a driver relies on non-free firmware but whether that firmware
is required to be installed in the host filesystem and loaded via the
driver.

The drivers included in upstream kernel releases that load non-free
firmware are retained as part of the linux-2.6 source package and most
of them are included in the binary packages. (Some are excluded due
to quality considerations or because they rely on firmware embedded
within the driver, which we remove.) If we were to package these
drivers separately, they would belong in the 'contrib' archive section
(free software with non-free or unpackaged dependencies). Since we do
not, and since the kernel in general does not have non-free
dependencies, these drivers remain in the 'main' archive section.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking.
- Albert Camus


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20110404151937.GO2268@decadent.org.uk">http://lists.debian.org/20110404151937.GO2268@decadent.org.uk
 
Old 04-05-2011, 11:39 AM
Karl Goetz
 
Default Suitability of the Debian Squeeze (and later) Linux kernel for gNewSense. Was (no subject)

On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 16:19:37 +0100
Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 04, 2011 at 09:51:16PM +0930, Karl Goetz wrote:
> > On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:52:39 +0100
> > Michael Dorrington <michael.dorrington@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
> > > AFAICT, the Debian kernel complies with the DFSG (or is extremely
> > > close). However, it retains drivers that require a firmware in
> > > order to be functional and where no free firmware currently
> > > exists for them. So if you don't considered Debian to be a "Free
> > > GNU/Linux distribution" then, I think, you won't considered the
> > > Debian kernel to be suitable for gNewSense.
> >
> > Does this mean 'retained in tree', or is it the stuff with no free
> > firmware in the non-free packages?
>
> Practically all modern peripherals run firmware, usually loaded from
> EEPROM or flash, and almost always non-free. So the question is not
> whether a driver relies on non-free firmware but whether that firmware
> is required to be installed in the host filesystem and loaded via the
> driver.

Thanks for clarifying that, my wording was quite sloppy (sorry about
that).

> The drivers included in upstream kernel releases that load non-free
> firmware are retained as part of the linux-2.6 source package and most
> of them are included in the binary packages. (Some are excluded due
> to quality considerations or because they rely on firmware embedded
> within the driver, which we remove.) If we were to package these
> drivers separately, they would belong in the 'contrib' archive section
> (free software with non-free or unpackaged dependencies). Since we do
> not, and since the kernel in general does not have non-free
> dependencies, these drivers remain in the 'main' archive section.

Thanks for this clarification.
kk

--
Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS)
Debian contributor / gNewSense Maintainer
http://www.kgoetz.id.au
No, I won't join your social networking group
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 04:45 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org