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Old 03-26-2010, 02:26 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Packagaing nouveau firmware

On Fri, 2010-03-26 at 10:51 +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2010-03-24 19:38 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>
> > The general conditions for the bug are:
> > 1. Module is manually loaded using /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
> > 2. Module needs to load firmware
>
> Thanks for the explanation. Speaking of the firmware, is anyone working
> on packaging it? Ubuntu has a package╣ in multiverse which works fine
> for me and could be used as a base, although it should probably named
> firmware-nouveau for consistency.
[...]

I'll have a look at that. I heard there were some concerns about
licencing a while back, as they were apparently large blobs extracted
from the Nvidia drivers and might be copyrightable. Do you know what
happened about that?

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it makes it worse.
 
Old 03-26-2010, 04:43 PM
Sven Joachim
 
Default Packagaing nouveau firmware

On 2010-03-26 16:26 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:

> On Fri, 2010-03-26 at 10:51 +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
>> Thanks for the explanation. Speaking of the firmware, is anyone working
>> on packaging it? Ubuntu has a package┬╣ in multiverse which works fine
>> for me and could be used as a base, although it should probably named
>> firmware-nouveau for consistency.
> [...]
>
> I'll have a look at that. I heard there were some concerns about
> licencing a while back, as they were apparently large blobs extracted
> from the Nvidia drivers and might be copyrightable.

They are not that large compared to the whole Nvidia driver (biggest
file is 33K), but they might be copyrightable. The debian/copyright
file of the Ubuntu package says:

These files are firmware-like programs for initialising GPU context-switching.
They were extracted from memory-mapped IO traces of the nvidia binary driver
initialising the hardware. They were not generated by reverse-engineering the
source code of the binary driver.
.
It is unclear to me whether these files are actually copyrightable. It seems
that these programs are likely to be generated by the driver at runtime rather
than being hand-written. The nouveau driver takes this approach for nv4x
cards. If they are copyrightable, they should fall under the nvidia binary
driver's licence, below.

Followed by the text of the actual license. Since Nvidia does not
distribute the files themselves and their license only allows
redistribution of unmodified files, it seems that if the files are
copyrightable they are also undistributable, but I'm no legal expert.

> Do you know what happened about that?

The latest thing I could find is a thread on the ubuntu-x list in
February, starting at
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-x/2010-February/000773.html.
I don't know if any progress has been made since then.

An alternative to the nouveau-firmware package would be to backport
Marcin Ko┼Ťcielnicki's ctxprogs generator that is included in 2.6.34.
It generates the GPU initialization data on the fly, so no firmware is
needed.

Sven


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Old 03-29-2010, 01:36 AM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Packagaing nouveau firmware

On Fri, 2010-03-26 at 18:43 +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2010-03-26 16:26 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 2010-03-26 at 10:51 +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
> >> Thanks for the explanation. Speaking of the firmware, is anyone working
> >> on packaging it? Ubuntu has a package┬╣ in multiverse which works fine
> >> for me and could be used as a base, although it should probably named
> >> firmware-nouveau for consistency.
> > [...]
> >
> > I'll have a look at that. I heard there were some concerns about
> > licencing a while back, as they were apparently large blobs extracted
> > from the Nvidia drivers and might be copyrightable.
>
> They are not that large compared to the whole Nvidia driver (biggest
> file is 33K), but they might be copyrightable. The debian/copyright
> file of the Ubuntu package says:
>
> These files are firmware-like programs for initialising GPU context-switching.
> They were extracted from memory-mapped IO traces of the nvidia binary driver
> initialising the hardware. They were not generated by reverse-engineering the
> source code of the binary driver.
> .
> It is unclear to me whether these files are actually copyrightable. It seems
> that these programs are likely to be generated by the driver at runtime rather
> than being hand-written. The nouveau driver takes this approach for nv4x
> cards. If they are copyrightable, they should fall under the nvidia binary
> driver's licence, below.
>
> Followed by the text of the actual license. Since Nvidia does not
> distribute the files themselves and their license only allows
> redistribution of unmodified files, it seems that if the files are
> copyrightable they are also undistributable, but I'm no legal expert.

I think this is legally risky and ftpmaster will probably not allow it.

> > Do you know what happened about that?
>
> The latest thing I could find is a thread on the ubuntu-x list in
> February, starting at
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-x/2010-February/000773.html.
> I don't know if any progress has been made since then.
>
> An alternative to the nouveau-firmware package would be to backport
> Marcin Ko┼Ťcielnicki's ctxprogs generator that is included in 2.6.34.
> It generates the GPU initialization data on the fly, so no firmware is
> needed.

Right, I think we may have to do that.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it makes it worse.
 
Old 03-29-2010, 05:23 AM
Sven Joachim
 
Default Packagaing nouveau firmware

On 2010-03-29 03:36 +0200, Ben Hutchings wrote:

> On Fri, 2010-03-26 at 18:43 +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
>> Followed by the text of the actual license. Since Nvidia does not
>> distribute the files themselves and their license only allows
>> redistribution of unmodified files, it seems that if the files are
>> copyrightable they are also undistributable, but I'm no legal expert.
>
> I think this is legally risky and ftpmaster will probably not allow it.

Yeah. I'll mention this problem in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau's
README.Debian and include a script to download and install the firmware.

>> An alternative to the nouveau-firmware package would be to backport
>> Marcin Ko┼Ťcielnicki's ctxprogs generator that is included in 2.6.34.
>> It generates the GPU initialization data on the fly, so no firmware is
>> needed.
>
> Right, I think we may have to do that.

Actually, that generator is only for NV50 cards (for NV40 cards there is
already a generator in 2.6.33), which is what I have here. I don't know
if there are any other supported cards which still need external
firmware.

Commit d5f3c90d4f3ad6b054f9855b7b69137b97bda131 is what you would need
to cherry-pick. I applied this to the 2.6.33.1 kernel, and the result
seems to work fine (I'm using it right now). This also gets rid of any
MODULE_FIRMWARE stuff, making it possible to include nouveau.ko in the
intitramfs without hitting #575241. :-)

Sven


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Old 03-30-2010, 03:10 AM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Packagaing nouveau firmware

On Mon, 2010-03-29 at 07:23 +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2010-03-29 03:36 +0200, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 2010-03-26 at 18:43 +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
> >> Followed by the text of the actual license. Since Nvidia does not
> >> distribute the files themselves and their license only allows
> >> redistribution of unmodified files, it seems that if the files are
> >> copyrightable they are also undistributable, but I'm no legal expert.
> >
> > I think this is legally risky and ftpmaster will probably not allow it.
>
> Yeah. I'll mention this problem in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau's
> README.Debian and include a script to download and install the firmware.

I don't think you need to mention it.

> >> An alternative to the nouveau-firmware package would be to backport
> >> Marcin Ko┼Ťcielnicki's ctxprogs generator that is included in 2.6.34.
> >> It generates the GPU initialization data on the fly, so no firmware is
> >> needed.
> >
> > Right, I think we may have to do that.
>
> Actually, that generator is only for NV50 cards (for NV40 cards there is
> already a generator in 2.6.33), which is what I have here. I don't know
> if there are any other supported cards which still need external
> firmware.

After this change, external firmware/ctxprogs are optional for all cards
(it will only be used if you set module parameter nouveau_ctxfw=1).

> Commit d5f3c90d4f3ad6b054f9855b7b69137b97bda131 is what you would need
> to cherry-pick. I applied this to the 2.6.33.1 kernel, and the result
> seems to work fine (I'm using it right now). This also gets rid of any
> MODULE_FIRMWARE stuff, making it possible to include nouveau.ko in the
> intitramfs without hitting #575241. :-)

I have cherry-picked that and a couple of following bug fixes.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it makes it worse.
 

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