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Old 09-13-2008, 09:41 PM
Martin Sourada
 
Default New mail-* icons (total of eleven icons)

Hi,

I've just finished drawing the mail-* icons from the Action context.
It's a total of eleven icons and it took me a lot of time to create
theme :-D

Anyway, generally I am content with the look of the icons (otherwise I
would not post it here...) but still think there might be done some
improvements, that I am however currently not able to do (either I don't
know what exactly could be improved or have reached the top of my
current skills with inkscape).

So before I reference the sources/PNGs, I'll tell some words about
difficulties I had/have:

* the mail-reply-all icon sis pretty hard to do right in Echo
style. First that type of arrows that are used in gnome icons is
hard to do in Echo style, especially in small sizes and plain
arrows just don't work when they are side-to-side. So I tried
various colour combinations and arrow positions until I came up
with the current design [1]. I hope it's good enough...

* the mail-(not)junk proved pretty hard to create, especially in
the 256x256 size - drawing crumpled paper with inkscape isn't
easy, but somehow I managed to draw something that looks like it
(though it probably might look better) [2]. If anyone feels
(s)he could improve it, feel free to do so

* I decided to put some text on the 256x256 mail-mark-read icon,
because the size big is enough for that, however as I didn't
know what to put there, I used lorem ipsum, today's date and
"address" Echo Icon Theme; Fedora Project... I used URW Chancery
L font (hope it's OK to use it) for that since I liked it there,
and in a size that's not readable (but looks IMHO good) :-D

I've uploaded all the icons to my Fedora People page [3] and also
prepared animated gif (slideshow) [4] so you can see all the icons in
one batch.

Comments, improvements, suggestions... welcome.
Martin

References:
[1] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/echo/Actions/mail-reply-all.png
[2] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/echo/Actions/mail-mark-junk.png
[3] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/echo/Actions/
[4] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/echo/Actions/mail-all.gif

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Old 09-15-2008, 08:35 AM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default New mail-* icons (total of eleven icons)

Martin Sourada wrote:


So before I reference the sources/PNGs, I'll tell some words about
difficulties I had/have:

* the mail-reply-all icon sis pretty hard to do right in Echo
style. First that type of arrows that are used in gnome icons is
hard to do in Echo style, especially in small sizes and plain
arrows just don't work when they are side-to-side. So I tried
various colour combinations and arrow positions until I came up
with the current design [1]. I hope it's good enough...


You have two icons, one pointing left (reply) and another pointing right
(forward). Not sure the likeness to the forward operation is wise.
Here is how this icon looks in the default Thunderbird theme: the same
back arrow as for "reply" but *two* envelopes (you reply by using more
than one mail) - but this may not work at 16x16, here you do not display
the envelope.


Note: I think it is a mistake that the 16x16 icon has both of the arrows
pointing left (back), unlike the other sizes. The set should be
consistent internally.



* the mail-(not)junk proved pretty hard to create, especially in
the 256x256 size - drawing crumpled paper with inkscape isn't
easy, but somehow I managed to draw something that looks like it
(though it probably might look better) [2]. If anyone feels
(s)he could improve it, feel free to do so


How about using the trash can? To not confuse with "delete mail", maybe
envelope + trash can?



* I decided to put some text on the 256x256 mail-mark-read icon,
because the size big is enough for that, however as I didn't
know what to put there, I used lorem ipsum, today's date and
"address" Echo Icon Theme; Fedora Project... I used URW Chancery
L font (hope it's OK to use it) for that since I liked it there,
and in a size that's not readable (but looks IMHO good) :-D


That is a nice touch (the cursive writing and all) and the "lorem ipsum"
is the safest choice.
As the text is normally unreadable, you can use it as an "Easter egg",
putting in there anything you want: the description of Fedora mission,
your favorite cook book recipe, an essay about beer (ups! I forgot you
don't drink beer ), some advanced physics, a love letter for someone
special, etc (tip: open Firefox and type "about:mozilla" in the location
bar).


I think I would be tempted to go with a funny "Easter egg" myself.

--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

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Old 09-15-2008, 09:19 AM
Martin Sourada
 
Default New mail-* icons (total of eleven icons)

On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 11:35 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> You have two icons, one pointing left (reply) and another pointing right
> (forward). Not sure the likeness to the forward operation is wise.
> Here is how this icon looks in the default Thunderbird theme: the same
> back arrow as for "reply" but *two* envelopes (you reply by using more
> than one mail) - but this may not work at 16x16, here you do not display
> the envelope.
>
I use Evolution so I am quite used to the current Echo icons which use
(the 24x24 variants are displayed there) the same metaphor I used here.
It's the same with Gnome icon theme, though they do not use straight
arrows. It's further distinguished by colour (same colours like in gnome
to keep consistent with them). Also the mail-forward bears now some
likeness to forward, which is IMHO good. I also checked oxygen icons and
they also use same metaphot.

I personally would think a little bit at loss at the meaning of the
Thunderbird icon, as you describe it. Basically when you forward a mail
the point is that you take the original mail and send it over to someone
else, i.e. forward it, you need not to add another explanatory mail to
that - thus the combination of forward arrow and one mail envelope.
However having two envelopes and one "reply" arrow seem to me more like
replying to more than one e-mail at once (sometimes might be an useful
feature :-D)... But come to think of it, it might be useful to have both
ltr and rtl variants (sadly enough nothing supports it for these icons)
since the directions of arrows have opposite symbolic meaning in rtl...

But thanks for the suggestion

> Note: I think it is a mistake that the 16x16 icon has both of the arrows
> pointing left (back), unlike the other sizes. The set should be
> consistent internally.
>
I just followed the example set by gnome icon theme - they use arrows
pointing in both directions in bigger sizes and arrows pointing only
left in 16x16. Oxygen uses doubled arrow pointing left in all sizes. Do
you think I should try to rework the bigger sizes, the 16x16 or leave it
as is now?

> > * the mail-(not)junk proved pretty hard to create, especially in
> > the 256x256 size - drawing crumpled paper with inkscape isn't
> > easy, but somehow I managed to draw something that looks like it
> > (though it probably might look better) [2]. If anyone feels
> > (s)he could improve it, feel free to do so
>
> How about using the trash can? To not confuse with "delete mail", maybe
> envelope + trash can?
>
I am personally against the trash can for junk mail metaphor (it's too
much easy to confuse with edit-delete, and in Evo these two icons are
next to each other so it would be really confusing, IMHO)... Even if it
were with envelope. Note that oxygen uses throwing envelope into trash
can for mail-junk and totally different metaphor for mail-notjunk which
is confusing. So I again reused the gnome metaphor. Maybe I could add an
envelope to the 256x256 so that I could make the crumpled paper smaller
(and looking subjectively more detailed)... What do you think?

> That is a nice touch (the cursive writing and all) and the "lorem ipsum"
> is the safest choice.
> As the text is normally unreadable, you can use it as an "Easter egg",
> putting in there anything you want: the description of Fedora mission,
> your favorite cook book recipe, an essay about beer (ups! I forgot you
> don't drink beer ), some advanced physics, a love letter for someone
> special, etc (tip: open Firefox and type "about:mozilla" in the location
> bar).
>
> I think I would be tempted to go with a funny "Easter egg" myself.
>
If I had good idea what to write there, I'd do it :-D

Thanks,
Martin
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:35 AM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default New mail-* icons (total of eleven icons)

Martin Sourada wrote:

On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 11:35 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
You have two icons, one pointing left (reply) and another pointing right
(forward). Not sure the likeness to the forward operation is wise.
Here is how this icon looks in the default Thunderbird theme: the same
back arrow as for "reply" but *two* envelopes (you reply by using more
than one mail) - but this may not work at 16x16, here you do not display
the envelope.



I use Evolution so I am quite used to the current Echo icons which use
(the 24x24 variants are displayed there) the same metaphor I used here.
It's the same with Gnome icon theme, though they do not use straight
arrows. It's further distinguished by colour (same colours like in gnome
to keep consistent with them). Also the mail-forward bears now some
likeness to forward, which is IMHO good. I also checked oxygen icons and
they also use same metaphot.

I personally would think a little bit at loss at the meaning of the
Thunderbird icon, as you describe it. Basically when you forward a mail


Screenshot attached.


the point is that you take the original mail and send it over to someone
else, i.e. forward it, you need not to add another explanatory mail to
that - thus the combination of forward arrow and one mail envelope.


I have to disagree. "Reply all" will send the reply to all people listed
in TO: or CC: (is kind of a primitive mailing list substitute), all the
people receiving your reply already have the original email. You don't
send the message to any new address (thus it does not involve anything
like forward).


These days, the most common usage for "reply all" is when a mailing list
does not se the Reply-to header and when using a plain "reply" button
your message is sent only to the original sender, not also to the list.
So you have to use "Reply all" to send it both to the original sender
and to the list.



However having two envelopes and one "reply" arrow seem to me more like
replying to more than one e-mail at once (sometimes might be an useful
feature :-D)... But come to think of it, it might be useful to have both
ltr and rtl variants (sadly enough nothing supports it for these icons)
since the directions of arrows have opposite symbolic meaning in rtl...

But thanks for the suggestion

Note: I think it is a mistake that the 16x16 icon has both of the arrows
pointing left (back), unlike the other sizes. The set should be
consistent internally.



I just followed the example set by gnome icon theme - they use arrows
pointing in both directions in bigger sizes and arrows pointing only
left in 16x16. Oxygen uses doubled arrow pointing left in all sizes. Do
you think I should try to rework the bigger sizes, the 16x16 or leave it
as is now?


I think now is a bug (and also a bug in the gnome icon theme), so the
arrows in all the variant of the icon should point the same directions.
I leave up to decide if the direction is only left or both left and
right based or may take above of "reply all" not being related to "forward".



I am personally against the trash can for junk mail metaphor (it's too
much easy to confuse with edit-delete, and in Evo these two icons are
next to each other so it would be really confusing, IMHO)... Even if it
were with envelope. Note that oxygen uses throwing envelope into trash
can for mail-junk and totally different metaphor for mail-notjunk which
is confusing. So I again reused the gnome metaphor. Maybe I could add an
envelope to the 256x256 so that I could make the crumpled paper smaller
(and looking subjectively more detailed)... What do you think?


I think the 256x256 version of this particular icon will not be used in
the foreseeable future so it is important how it look at the toolbar
size (24x24/22x22).


That is a nice touch (the cursive writing and all) and the "lorem ipsum"
is the safest choice.
As the text is normally unreadable, you can use it as an "Easter egg",
putting in there anything you want: the description of Fedora mission,
your favorite cook book recipe, an essay about beer (ups! I forgot you
don't drink beer ), some advanced physics, a love letter for someone
special, etc (tip: open Firefox and type "about:mozilla" in the location
bar).


I think I would be tempted to go with a funny "Easter egg" myself.


If I had good idea what to write there, I'd do it :-D


That is I pointed to a few examples. The idea is that you put something
funny in there and if/when we discover it later have a good laugh.


--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro
_______________________________________________
Fedora-art-list mailing list
Fedora-art-list@redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
 
Old 09-15-2008, 11:54 AM
Martin Sourada
 
Default New mail-* icons (total of eleven icons)

On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 14:35 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> Screenshot attached.
>
> > the point is that you take the original mail and send it over to someone
> > else, i.e. forward it, you need not to add another explanatory mail to
> > that - thus the combination of forward arrow and one mail envelope.
>
> I have to disagree. "Reply all" will send the reply to all people listed
> in TO: or CC: (is kind of a primitive mailing list substitute), all the
> people receiving your reply already have the original email. You don't
> send the message to any new address (thus it does not involve anything
> like forward).
>
> These days, the most common usage for "reply all" is when a mailing list
> does not se the Reply-to header and when using a plain "reply" button
> your message is sent only to the original sender, not also to the list.
> So you have to use "Reply all" to send it both to the original sender
> and to the list.
>
Aah, I see your point now. Since you talked about forward, I
misunderstood what you were talking about (I thought you were arguing
about having two envelopes for the mail-forward not for mail-all). Sorry
about that. I'll try that version to see how it would look in echo style
- for the 16x16 it's IMHO ok to have the two arrows instead of two
envelopes due to size constraints, we're just duplicating the only
available object and in context of other 16x16 icons it's IMHO easily
recognisable enough.

> I think now is a bug (and also a bug in the gnome icon theme), so the
> arrows in all the variant of the icon should point the same directions.
> I leave up to decide if the direction is only left or both left and
> right based or may take above of "reply all" not being related to "forward".
>
I believe I get why they choose to do it that way - with envelope,
having two arrows pointing the same directions looks a bit odd, without
envelope having the arrows pointing in opposite directions looks odd. I
would not call it a bug, just a limitations of design.

> > I am personally against the trash can for junk mail metaphor (it's too
> > much easy to confuse with edit-delete, and in Evo these two icons are
> > next to each other so it would be really confusing, IMHO)... Even if it
> > were with envelope. Note that oxygen uses throwing envelope into trash
> > can for mail-junk and totally different metaphor for mail-notjunk which
> > is confusing. So I again reused the gnome metaphor. Maybe I could add an
> > envelope to the 256x256 so that I could make the crumpled paper smaller
> > (and looking subjectively more detailed)... What do you think?
>
> I think the 256x256 version of this particular icon will not be used in
> the foreseeable future so it is important how it look at the toolbar
> size (24x24/22x22).
>
Ah, totally forgot about that :-D. We can improve the 256x256 one when
we have more time... In toolbar size it looks IMHO good.

> > If I had good idea what to write there, I'd do it :-D
>
> That is I pointed to a few examples. The idea is that you put something
> funny in there and if/when we discover it later have a good laugh.
>
The difference between having topic to write about and actually write
about it is pretty big (especially if you'd like to make it an Easter
egg)... If you feel like you can think up something, feel free to update
the icon ;-)

Martin
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Old 09-15-2008, 12:16 PM
Martin Sourada
 
Default New mail-* icons (total of eleven icons)

On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 13:54 +0200, Martin Sourada wrote:
> about that. I'll try that version to see how it would look in echo style
> - for the 16x16 it's IMHO ok to have the two arrows instead of two
> envelopes due to size constraints, we're just duplicating the only
> available object and in context of other 16x16 icons it's IMHO easily
> recognisable enough.

Indeed, it IMHO looks much better than having two arrows... Check the
attached PNG. Many thanks for the tip :-)

Martin

References:
[1] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/echo/Actions/mail-reply-all.png
[2] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/echo/Actions/mail-reply-all.svg
[3] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/echo/Actions/mail-all.gif


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Old 09-15-2008, 02:49 PM
Andreas Nilsson
 
Default New mail-* icons (total of eleven icons)

Nicu Buculei wrote:

Martin Sourada wrote:

On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 11:35 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
You have two icons, one pointing left (reply) and another pointing
right (forward). Not sure the likeness to the forward operation is
wise.
Here is how this icon looks in the default Thunderbird theme: the
same back arrow as for "reply" but *two* envelopes (you reply by
using more than one mail) - but this may not work at 16x16, here you
do not display the envelope.



I use Evolution so I am quite used to the current Echo icons which use
(the 24x24 variants are displayed there) the same metaphor I used here.
It's the same with Gnome icon theme, though they do not use straight
arrows. It's further distinguished by colour (same colours like in gnome
to keep consistent with them). Also the mail-forward bears now some
likeness to forward, which is IMHO good. I also checked oxygen icons and
they also use same metaphot.

I personally would think a little bit at loss at the meaning of the
Thunderbird icon, as you describe it. Basically when you forward a mail


Screenshot attached.


the point is that you take the original mail and send it over to someone
else, i.e. forward it, you need not to add another explanatory mail to
that - thus the combination of forward arrow and one mail envelope.


I have to disagree. "Reply all" will send the reply to all people
listed in TO: or CC: (is kind of a primitive mailing list substitute),
all the people receiving your reply already have the original email.
You don't send the message to any new address (thus it does not
involve anything like forward).


These days, the most common usage for "reply all" is when a mailing
list does not se the Reply-to header and when using a plain "reply"
button your message is sent only to the original sender, not also to
the list. So you have to use "Reply all" to send it both to the
original sender and to the list.



However having two envelopes and one "reply" arrow seem to me more like
replying to more than one e-mail at once (sometimes might be an useful
feature :-D)... But come to think of it, it might be useful to have both
ltr and rtl variants (sadly enough nothing supports it for these icons)
since the directions of arrows have opposite symbolic meaning in rtl...

But thanks for the suggestion

Note: I think it is a mistake that the 16x16 icon has both of the
arrows pointing left (back), unlike the other sizes. The set should
be consistent internally.



I just followed the example set by gnome icon theme - they use arrows
pointing in both directions in bigger sizes and arrows pointing only
left in 16x16. Oxygen uses doubled arrow pointing left in all sizes. Do
you think I should try to rework the bigger sizes, the 16x16 or leave it
as is now?


I think now is a bug (and also a bug in the gnome icon theme), so the
arrows in all the variant of the icon should point the same directions.
I leave up to decide if the direction is only left or both left and
right based or may take above of "reply all" not being related to
"forward".
Totally agree that this is inconsistent and bad. I like your ideas a lot
better.

Did you file a bug against gnome-icon-theme already, or should I do that?

I'm also going to see if it's possible to get rid of some of the
envelope noise in the evolution message list, right now it uses a icon
for every single state, and all of them are envelopes. Just makes things
look cluttered.

- Andreas

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Old 09-15-2008, 03:34 PM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default New mail-* icons (total of eleven icons)

Andreas Nilsson wrote:

Nicu Buculei wrote:
I think now is a bug (and also a bug in the gnome icon theme), so the
arrows in all the variant of the icon should point the same directions.
I leave up to decide if the direction is only left or both left and
right based or may take above of "reply all" not being related to
"forward".
Totally agree that this is inconsistent and bad. I like your ideas a lot
better.

Did you file a bug against gnome-icon-theme already, or should I do that?


No, I didn't fill the bug in GNOME as a Thunderbird user myself I wasn't
aware of the problem until now.


I'm also going to see if it's possible to get rid of some of the
envelope noise in the evolution message list, right now it uses a icon
for every single state, and all of them are envelopes. Just makes things
look cluttered.



--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

_______________________________________________
Fedora-art-list mailing list
Fedora-art-list@redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
 

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