Echo for F10?

08-27-2008, 08:51 AM

On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 01:27 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote:
> So let's get both artwork and desktop team decide by consensus to
> include echo-icon-theme as default iconset for Fedora 10.
> It is used not only on fedora project wiki but alsoo smolt, transifex
> and fedora-fr.org. It will be an opportunity to get feedback.
>
> Luya
>

Just for information, nodoka-notification-theme wasn't accepted by Fesco
as feature, even though they seem to be OK with the change (so we
changed it recently). It seems like artwork things are preferred to be
decided by the Art Team rather than Fesco. I have a feeling it might be
same for Echo. In this case I personally think Echo should be put on
evaluation by Art Team and Desktop Team. If both agree it's ready for
default we can roll it in ;-)

The thing is, we haven't decided what we expect from default icon theme.
How big the coverage needs to be, what needs to be covered, ...

We can also enable it in Rawhide and see the reaction. If it's not
favourable we can stay with Mist once again.

Martin
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08-27-2008, 09:41 AM

Martin Sourada wrote:

On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 01:27 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote:

So let's get both artwork and desktop team decide by consensus to
include echo-icon-theme as default iconset for Fedora 10.
It is used not only on fedora project wiki but alsoo smolt, transifex
and fedora-fr.org. It will be an opportunity to get feedback.

Luya

Just for information, nodoka-notification-theme wasn't accepted by Fesco
as feature, even though they seem to be OK with the change (so we
changed it recently). It seems like artwork things are preferred to be
decided by the Art Team rather than Fesco. I have a feeling it might be
same for Echo. In this case I personally think Echo should be put on
evaluation by Art Team and Desktop Team. If both agree it's ready for
default we can roll it in ;-)

The thing is, we haven't decided what we expect from default icon theme.
How big the coverage needs to be, what needs to be covered, ...

Some information on the current % would be good.

Rahul

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08-27-2008, 10:02 AM

Martin Sourada a écrit*:

Just for information, nodoka-notification-theme wasn't accepted by Fesco
as feature, even though they seem to be OK with the change (so we
changed it recently). It seems like artwork things are preferred to be
decided by the Art Team rather than Fesco. I have a feeling it might be
same for Echo. In this case I personally think Echo should be put on
evaluation by Art Team and Desktop Team. If both agree it's ready for
default we can roll it in ;-)

Lets give a review to Fesco to see what happens.

The thing is, we haven't decided what we expect from default icon theme.
How big the coverage needs to be, what needs to be covered, ...

First-level menu is done. Second-level is in progress. Using 256x256 to
create a nice first boot setup. etc.

We can ask Mo that question.

Luya

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08-27-2008, 10:04 AM

On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 15:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Some information on the current % would be good.
>
> Rahul
>
Indeed, but it's not so easy as it might seem. We could count the
coverage of the icon-naming-specs, we could count the coverage of gnome
menus in desktop live cd, coverage of main menus in other spins... Which
number however is the most relevant one? I think menus themselves are
not enough, icon-naming-specs on the other side does not include most of
the icons in menus, ...

Martin
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08-27-2008, 10:07 AM

Martin Sourada wrote:

Just for information, nodoka-notification-theme wasn't accepted by Fesco
as feature, even though they seem to be OK with the change (so we
changed it recently). It seems like artwork things are preferred to be
decided by the Art Team rather than Fesco. I have a feeling it might be

Yes, but, from a marketing POV, if we list it as a "feature" it will be
picked by more news source and help building the excitement around the
new release.

same for Echo. In this case I personally think Echo should be put on
evaluation by Art Team and Desktop Team. If both agree it's ready for
default we can roll it in ;-)

So we crosspost this to the Desktop list or just hope mclasen will
notice the thread?

The thing is, we haven't decided what we expect from default icon theme.
How big the coverage needs to be, what needs to be covered, ...

Thus my initial question if we feel comfortable about proposing it.

We can also enable it in Rawhide and see the reaction. If it's not
favourable we can stay with Mist once again.

--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

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08-27-2008, 11:07 AM

On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 13:07 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> Yes, but, from a marketing POV, if we list it as a "feature" it will be
> picked by more news source and help building the excitement around the
> new release.
>
Definitely. Would it make sense then to have Art Features, separate from
the Fesco ones? They seem to give us quite a free hand in decisions
about art and since we'd like to market Art as well, having some kind of
features might help.

> So we crosspost this to the Desktop list or just hope mclasen will
> notice the thread?
>
I am subscribed to Desktop list, dunno about others... I'd just create
new thread that would be sent both to art-list and desktop-list which
would ask for evaluation by both teams.

> > The thing is, we haven't decided what we expect from default icon theme.
> > How big the coverage needs to be, what needs to be covered, ...
>
> Thus my initial question if we feel comfortable about proposing it.
>
Yeah, I share that feeling (i.e. I am not sure whether to propose it or
not). Sorting that kind of thing in this thread does not feel right
though (after all we already hijacked the original thread)... Also it
would be good to have desktop team opinion on this as well.

Martin
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08-27-2008, 01:46 PM

Martin Sourada wrote:

On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 15:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

Some information on the current % would be good.

Rahul

Indeed, but it's not so easy as it might seem. We could count the
coverage of the icon-naming-specs, we could count the coverage of gnome
menus in desktop live cd, coverage of main menus in other spins... Which
number however is the most relevant one? I think menus themselves are
not enough, icon-naming-specs on the other side does not include most of
the icons in menus, ...

What about the percentage of coverage you're going to see on a fresh
Fedora install, in all apps etc?

Is the number higher than the current default style?
- Andreas

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08-27-2008, 01:58 PM

On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 15:46 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:
> What about the percentage of coverage you're going to see on a fresh
> Fedora install, in all apps etc?
That would not be so easy to count... Even for gnome menus its a lot of
work...

> Is the number higher than the current default style?
Echo is worse in case of coverage percentage than Mist+Gnome, that we
know most certainly. But the current default does not cover everything
either. Therefore I wonder where we should focus our efforts with
coverage - just follow gnome+mist and do the same you did there, or
rather focus on the pieces that are missing in gnome+mist (like we are
doing now when we try to improve the coverage of gnome menus). I
personally think gnome+mist icon themes can coexist pretty good with
Echo though final state would be that we wouldn't need those two as Echo
fallback themes.

> - Andreas
Martin
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08-28-2008, 04:07 PM

Martin Sourada wrote:

On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 15:46 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:

What about the percentage of coverage you're going to see on a fresh
Fedora install, in all apps etc?

That would not be so easy to count... Even for gnome menus its a lot of
work...

Is the number higher than the current default style?

Echo is worse in case of coverage percentage than Mist+Gnome, that we
know most certainly. But the current default does not cover everything
either. Therefore I wonder where we should focus our efforts with
coverage - just follow gnome+mist and do the same you did there, or
rather focus on the pieces that are missing in gnome+mist (like we are
doing now when we try to improve the coverage of gnome menus). I
personally think gnome+mist icon themes can coexist pretty good with
Echo though final state would be that we wouldn't need those two as Echo
fallback themes.

Hi Martin!
My concern was mainly that if the new set don't do a better job with
coverage than the old one, I would consider it a regression.

- Andreas

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To: ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: ram
Organization: http://BUGabundo.net
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:01:42 +0100
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From: "(=?utf-8?q?=60=60-=5F-=C2=B4=C2=B4?=) -- Fernando"
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Cc: Jason Crain <jason@bluetree.ath.cx>
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Ol=C3=A1 Jason e a todos.

On Wednesday 27 August 2008 07:22:32 Jason Crain wrote:

Short answer: 32 bit operating systems can only use about 3.5G RAM.

Actually the system sees(the correct term is address) a max of 4GiBs.
But you have to count all the system RAM, CPU cache, GPU RAM, disc(s) cache=
, etc.
So, if you have a 256 GPU plus a 16MiBs disk cache, and other low address m=
emories, the CPU and OS can now only address about 3,5GiBs of the system RA=
M...

=2D-=20
BUGabundo

)
(``-_-=C2=B4=C2=B4) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net
Linux user #443786 GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB
My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net
ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance.=
I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by...

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08-28-2008, 04:58 PM

Andreas Nilsson wrote:

Martin Sourada wrote:

On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 15:46 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:

What about the percentage of coverage you're going to see on a fresh
Fedora install, in all apps etc?

That would not be so easy to count... Even for gnome menus its a lot of
work...

Is the number higher than the current default style?

Echo is worse in case of coverage percentage than Mist+Gnome, that we
know most certainly. But the current default does not cover everything
either. Therefore I wonder where we should focus our efforts with
coverage - just follow gnome+mist and do the same you did there, or
rather focus on the pieces that are missing in gnome+mist (like we are
doing now when we try to improve the coverage of gnome menus). I
personally think gnome+mist icon themes can coexist pretty good with
Echo though final state would be that we wouldn't need those two as Echo
fallback themes.

Hi Martin!
My concern was mainly that if the new set don't do a better job with
coverage than the old one, I would consider it a regression.

- Andreas

Ugh, reading this again I make it sound all snobbish or something.
What I meant was that a consistent system is a beautiful system in the
way that people can actually forget about the icon looks all together
and focus on their function.
Therefore, if you think Echo is the way forward, it might be better to
wait a little while longer until things are in a more release-ready state.

- Andreas

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