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Old 06-23-2008, 12:53 PM
Otavio Salvador
 
Default Switch to 2.6.25

Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl> writes:

> On Sunday 22 June 2008, Otavio Salvador wrote:
>> I've prepared a set of patches against current kernel-wedge to update
>> it.
>
> Thanks.
>
>> *- ide-generic-pci
>>
>> * *I haven't add it since I found no reference about it being used by
>> * *other distros and then I prefer to still use ide-generic for now,
>> * *so near of release
>
> I'm still not sure about this one. Current support for ide-generic in D-I
> and initramfs-tools is far from perfect and could still be considered a
> regression from Etch. It could well be that ide-generic-pci fills an
> important gap here. We really should discuss this with the kernel team.

Kernel Team, please give us some guidance on that. Should we use
ide-generic-pci or ide-generic?

>> cdrom-core-modules: add ide-cd_mod.
>> ide-modules: add ide-pnp.
>
> Some more explanation for these would be nice. Please remember that the
> changelog is not only _what_ you do, but also _why_ you do it.

Looking again, I think we could skip ide-pnp. At least from the source
it looks to be ISA related and I think we doesn't need to include it
until we get complains about non-working systems.

Kernel Team, any guidance here too?

--
O T A V I O S A L V A D O R
---------------------------------------------
E-mail: otavio@debian.org UIN: 5906116
GNU/Linux User: 239058 GPG ID: 49A5F855
Home Page: http://otavio.ossystems.com.br
---------------------------------------------
"Microsoft sells you Windows ... Linux gives
you the whole house."


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Old 06-25-2008, 01:42 AM
maximilian attems
 
Default Switch to 2.6.25

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008, Otavio Salvador wrote:

> Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl> writes:
>
> > On Sunday 22 June 2008, Otavio Salvador wrote:
> >> I've prepared a set of patches against current kernel-wedge to update
> >> it.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >> *- ide-generic-pci
> >>
> >> * *I haven't add it since I found no reference about it being used by
> >> * *other distros and then I prefer to still use ide-generic for now,
> >> * *so near of release
> >
> > I'm still not sure about this one. Current support for ide-generic in D-I
> > and initramfs-tools is far from perfect and could still be considered a
> > regression from Etch. It could well be that ide-generic-pci fills an
> > important gap here. We really should discuss this with the kernel team.
>
> Kernel Team, please give us some guidance on that. Should we use
> ide-generic-pci or ide-generic?

on my TODO, currently fjp has the best write up on the current situation.
wanted to double check it and give it some thought

ide-generic sucks^Wwins usually tooo often

> >> cdrom-core-modules: add ide-cd_mod.
> >> ide-modules: add ide-pnp.
> >
> > Some more explanation for these would be nice. Please remember that the
> > changelog is not only _what_ you do, but also _why_ you do it.
>
> Looking again, I think we could skip ide-pnp. At least from the source
> it looks to be ISA related and I think we doesn't need to include it
> until we get complains about non-working systems.
>
> Kernel Team, any guidance here too?

right yes forget isa for now.

amicalement

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maks


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Old 06-25-2008, 03:16 PM
 
Default Switch to 2.6.25

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 03:42:55AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008, Otavio Salvador wrote:
> > Kernel Team, please give us some guidance on that. Should we use
> > ide-generic-pci or ide-generic?
>
> on my TODO, currently fjp has the best write up on the current situation.
> wanted to double check it and give it some thought
>
> ide-generic sucks^Wwins usually tooo often

But if you load it last, how can it win unless it finds something
nothing else supported?

> > Looking again, I think we could skip ide-pnp. At least from the source
> > it looks to be ISA related and I think we doesn't need to include it
> > until we get complains about non-working systems.

I can go do a test on my 486 if you would like a complaint about it not
working. Well I don't actually use pnp for the ide, so maybe it
wouldn't complain.

> > Kernel Team, any guidance here too?
>
> right yes forget isa for now.

But what do you do if your system only has ISA?

--
Len Sorensen


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Old 06-25-2008, 03:21 PM
maximilian attems
 
Default Switch to 2.6.25

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:16:23AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 03:42:55AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2008, Otavio Salvador wrote:
> > > Kernel Team, please give us some guidance on that. Should we use
> > > ide-generic-pci or ide-generic?
> >
> > on my TODO, currently fjp has the best write up on the current situation.
> > wanted to double check it and give it some thought
> >
> > ide-generic sucks^Wwins usually tooo often
>
> But if you load it last, how can it win unless it finds something
> nothing else supported?

that there is *zero* point in having it loaded first.

also win 95 killed ISA thankfully. gone dead.
if someone really complains we can start wasting time there.

sunny greetings

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maks


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Old 06-25-2008, 03:28 PM
 
Default Switch to 2.6.25

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 05:21:34PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> that there is *zero* point in having it loaded first.
>
> also win 95 killed ISA thankfully. gone dead.
> if someone really complains we can start wasting time there.

Win95 ran just fine on an ISA only 486. Not dead what so ever. So does
Debian for that matter, I just haven't had to reinstall since installing
2.1 quite a number of years ago (2.0 didn't install so well). In fact
win95 was the first to support ISA PnP, so I would hardly say it tried
to kill it, in fact it tried to make it easier to use. Maybe XP tried
to kill ISA.

It really seems a shame to exclude support for machines for no other
reason than someone having taken offense to loading a tiny little module
that doesn't hurt anyone.

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Old 06-25-2008, 04:49 PM
maximilian attems
 
Default Switch to 2.6.25

this thread goes no where.

loading a module on *all* boxes for 0.01% percent of the population
is not the right thing to do.

if you want some more informed statement read what fjp wrote down
or come up with a fine patch.

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Old 06-25-2008, 08:12 PM
 
Default Switch to 2.6.25

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 06:49:32PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> this thread goes no where.
>
> loading a module on *all* boxes for 0.01% percent of the population
> is not the right thing to do.

And what solution is there for the 0.01% that would like to continue
using their systems? Do you have a boot option to tell the system that
you really do want ide-generic loaded? What percentage of users are
hamred in any way by loading ide-generic? I suspect probably less than
are helped.

As for what percentage uses what, I would really not go there. By that
logic you could easily conclude there is no reason to support anyone
with less than a 686 CPU, because to do so would require a less optimal
kernel during the install, etc, etc. It's a lame argument with an
arbitrary cutoff line. What if it was 5% that needed ide-generic, would
that be enough? How about 10%? 20%? When does it become important
enough?

> if you want some more informed statement read what fjp wrote down
> or come up with a fine patch.

If you try all other ide drivers first, then load ide-generic and see if
it causes any more devices to show up, and then remove it again if it
doesn't, how can this possibly do anything other than help that 0.01%
who has isa ide controllers while doing no harm to anyone else?

The lame excuses that I have seen about some ide controllers getting
confused if ide-generic probes them while their native driver is using
them is pointless. That would be a bug in the native driver for not
reserving the full set of ports their particular chip uses and no fault
of ide-generic.

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Old 06-25-2008, 08:14 PM
 
Default Switch to 2.6.25

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 06:18:46PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> ide-generic did hurt a lot, it took over the ide device in various case
> over the native driver, and disk support broke.

Which cases? lack of ide-generic hurts a lot when it is the only driver
for your controller too.

> Also, this ide-generic bug was the bug which put into motion the events
> leading to my expulsion, so i think it is a particularly evil module

What exactly is the bug? Everything I remember seeing so far points at
bugs in other IDE drivers, not ide-generic as far as I am concerned, or
possibly in initramfs loading ide-generic too early.

> Please forward this mail to the list, as i am currently being censored
> and cannot post directly.

Lovely.

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