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Nick Boyce 07-19-2012 02:34 AM

Squeeze Konqueror Crashes - Need Debug Symbols
 
Hi All,

I've finally gotten sick enough of Konqueror crashes on Squeeze to want to do
something about it.

Several times a week I get Konqueror (4.4.5 / AMD64) dying on me, announced by
Dr.Konqui popping up, offering to let me produce a crash-dump and report the
error as a bug, failing to find enough information to make the dump worthwhile
but suggesting that I might want to install debugging symbols to improve the
situation, and then having the 'Install Debug Symbols' button greyed out so I
can't.

Screenshots for those interested :
http://www.glimmer.adsl24.co.uk/images/temp/KDE44-Konqueror-crash-
a-20120710.png
http://www.glimmer.adsl24.co.uk/images/temp/KDE44-Konqueror-crash-
b-20120710.png
http://www.glimmer.adsl24.co.uk/images/temp/KDE44-Konqueror-crash-
c-20120711.png

I've searched packages.d.o for anything resembling a package of Konqueror
debug symbols, but without success. (Searching package descriptions for
"konqueror debug symbols" finds 46 other packages' debug symbols but nothing
for Konqueror ...)

Likewise, doing :
# apt-cache search "debug symbols"|grep -i konq
finds debug symbols for 305 other packages but not Konqueror.

Can anyone tell me what to install so as to get usable crash dumps so as to
become able to submit Konqueror bug reports ?

Cheers
Nick
--
Never FDISK after midnight


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Daniel Sutil 07-19-2012 07:30 AM

Squeeze Konqueror Crashes - Need Debug Symbols
 
Hello.

The debugging symbols are included in the packages ending with -dbg (for example: kde-runtime-dbg)

I think that in this case, you have to install the package kdebase-dbg

Un saludo,

Daniel Sutil





On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 4:34 AM, Nick Boyce <nick@glimmer.adsl24.co.uk> wrote:

Hi All,



I've finally gotten sick enough of Konqueror crashes on Squeeze to want to do

something about it.



Several times a week I get Konqueror (4.4.5 / AMD64) dying on me, announced by

Dr.Konqui popping up, offering to let me produce a crash-dump and report the

error as a bug, failing to find enough information to make the dump worthwhile

but suggesting that I might want to install debugging symbols to improve the

situation, and then having the 'Install Debug Symbols' button greyed out so I

can't.



Screenshots for those interested :

http://www.glimmer.adsl24.co.uk/images/temp/KDE44-Konqueror-crash-

a-20120710.png

http://www.glimmer.adsl24.co.uk/images/temp/KDE44-Konqueror-crash-

b-20120710.png

http://www.glimmer.adsl24.co.uk/images/temp/KDE44-Konqueror-crash-

c-20120711.png



I've searched packages.d.o for anything resembling a package of Konqueror

debug symbols, but without success. *(Searching package descriptions for

"konqueror debug symbols" finds 46 other packages' debug symbols but nothing

for Konqueror ...)



Likewise, doing :

*# apt-cache search "debug symbols"|grep -i konq

finds debug symbols for 305 other packages but not Konqueror.



Can anyone tell me what to install so as to get usable crash dumps so as to

become able to submit Konqueror bug reports ?



Cheers

Nick

--

Never FDISK after midnight





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Nick Boyce 07-19-2012 04:30 PM

Squeeze Konqueror Crashes - Need Debug Symbols
 
On Thursday 19 Jul 2012 08:30:46 Daniel Sutil wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 4:34 AM, Nick Boyce wrote:
> [...]
>> I've searched packages.d.o for anything resembling a package of Konqueror
>> debug symbols, but without success. (Searching package descriptions for
>> "konqueror debug symbols" finds 46 other packages' debug symbols but
>> nothing for Konqueror ...)
>>
>> Likewise, doing :
>> # apt-cache search "debug symbols"|grep -i konq
>>
>> finds debug symbols for 305 other packages but not Konqueror.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me what to install so as to get usable crash dumps so as
>> to become able to submit Konqueror bug reports ?
>
> I think that in this case, you have to install the package kdebase-dbg

Thanks very much Daniel - I would never have guessed that package. I've
installed it, and await the next Konqueror crash with renewed enthusiasm :)


OT: (and FAO Debian packagers I guess)

IMHO there's a packaging issue here ....

(a) it's very difficult for the uninitiated to figure out where to get the
debugging symbols from - there's no indication of the required package on the
packages.d.o/konqueror page - not even a 'recommends' or a 'suggests' - and
the built-in 'Install Debug Symbols' button is, as I reported, disabled ...

(Should I bug report that ? ... surely someone else has seen the greyed-out
button, but I can't see any related bug report.)

(b) the user has to install 325Mb of debug packages (painful for some folks)
to acquire the ability to report crashes in a web browser, at a time where the
browser package itself is around 1.3Mb !

Well much of that 325Mb is required additional auto-installed packages :
kdebase-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-2 [29.0 MB]
kdebase-runtime-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-1 [22.8 MB]
libqt4-dbg amd64 4:4.6.3-4+squeeze1 [160 MB]
libc6-dbg amd64 2.11.3-3 [10.5 MB]
kdelibs5-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze3 [103 MB]

Of course I suppose a lot of this 325Mb will also provide for usable crash
dumps from other packages besides Konq, but still ... why no 'konqueror-dbg'
package ?


Cheers,
Nick
--
I remember it well as I was dating a physicist at the time.


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Xavier Brochard 07-21-2012 02:18 PM

Squeeze Konqueror Crashes - Need Debug Symbols
 
Nick Boyce wrote:
> (b) the user has to install 325Mb of debug packages (painful for some
> folks) to acquire the ability to report crashes in a web browser, at a
> time where the browser package itself is around 1.3Mb !

That is the size of the raphical interface. The browser need a rendering
engine, a javascript interpretor and some libs which are in different
packages.

> Well much of that 325Mb is required additional auto-installed packages :
> kdebase-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-2 [29.0 MB]
> kdebase-runtime-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-1 [22.8 MB]
> libqt4-dbg amd64 4:4.6.3-4+squeeze1 [160 MB]
> libc6-dbg amd64 2.11.3-3 [10.5 MB]
> kdelibs5-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze3 [103 MB]
>
> Of course I suppose a lot of this 325Mb will also provide for usable crash
> dumps from other packages besides Konq, but still ... why no
> 'konqueror-dbg' package ?

Regarding the total size of downloads, it wouldn't make a lot of difference
because konqueror debugging require
- kdebase-runtime-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-1 [22.8 MB]
- libqt4-dbg amd64 4:4.6.3-4+squeeze1 [160 MB]
- libc6-dbg amd64 2.11.3-3 [10.5 MB]
- kdelibs5-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze3 [103 MB]

You are right that debugging packages are hard to find when you don't know
how it works.

xavier


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Nick Boyce 07-21-2012 03:38 PM

Squeeze Konqueror Crashes - Need Debug Symbols
 
On Saturday 21 Jul 2012 15:18:19 Xavier Brochard wrote:

> Nick Boyce wrote:
>
> > (b) the user has to install 325Mb of debug packages (painful for some
> > folks) to acquire the ability to report crashes in a web browser, at a
> > time where the browser package itself is around 1.3Mb !
>
> That is the size of the raphical interface. The browser need a rendering
> engine, a javascript interpretor and some libs which are in different
> packages.

Yeah, I'd been assuming something of the sort - 1.3Mb would be insanely small
for a browser ... but still, no current browser download is more than 20Mb.

Your comment about the other packages involved raises an interesting point: I
notice that most of the back-traces I get have a lot of names containing "kjs"
at the top of the stack, so I'm assuming Konqueror's Javascript interpreter is
mostly to blame (certainly I get noticeably fewer crashes since I disabled
Javascript by default) - which begs the question, which Debian package should
I raise any bug report against in such cases ?

I could guess the bugs should be raised against Konqueror and the devs would
reassign to "sub-packages" as necessary - is that the right approach ?

[Also, I assume that "Crash Reporter" dialog I see is going to report the
problem to kde.org, not debian.org ... is that right ?]

> Regarding the total size of downloads, it wouldn't make a lot of
> difference because konqueror debugging require
> - kdebase-runtime-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-1 [22.8 MB]
> - libqt4-dbg amd64 4:4.6.3-4+squeeze1 [160 MB]
> - libc6-dbg amd64 2.11.3-3 [10.5 MB]
> - kdelibs5-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze3 [103 MB]

Hmm ... maybe some of those "all-of-KDE" debug symbols should always be
installed whenever KDE is installed ... likewise, it maybe wouldn't hurt to
install the libc6 symbols on all Debian installations ... oh well, I'm sure
it's been discussed to death on some developer mailing list :)

> You are right that debugging packages are hard to find when you
> don't know how it works.

Thanks for the feedback.

Nick
--
"Firefox 3.6? Dude we're on 8.0 now. You're like 3 weeks behind !"


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Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer 07-21-2012 06:10 PM

Squeeze Konqueror Crashes - Need Debug Symbols
 
On Sáb 21 Jul 2012 12:38:08 Nick Boyce escribió:
[snip]
> [Also, I assume that "Crash Reporter" dialog I see is going to report the
> problem to kde.org, not debian.org ... is that right ?]

Yes, and if it's not a packaging problem, that's desired :)

> > Regarding the total size of downloads, it wouldn't make a lot of
> > difference because konqueror debugging require
> > - kdebase-runtime-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-1 [22.8 MB]
> > - libqt4-dbg amd64 4:4.6.3-4+squeeze1 [160 MB]
> > - libc6-dbg amd64 2.11.3-3 [10.5 MB]
> > - kdelibs5-dbg amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze3 [103 MB]
>
> Hmm ... maybe some of those "all-of-KDE" debug symbols should always be
> installed whenever KDE is installed ... likewise, it maybe wouldn't hurt to
> install the libc6 symbols on all Debian installations ... oh well, I'm sure
> it's been discussed to death on some developer mailing list :)

The problem is very simple: those debugging symbols take **too** much space.
Nothing we can think of pushing onto our users.

Kinds regards, Lisandro.

--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you
and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an
idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
George Bernard Shaw

Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer
http://perezmeyer.com.ar/
http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/

Martin Steigerwald 07-22-2012 10:07 AM

Squeeze Konqueror Crashes - Need Debug Symbols
 
Hi Nick,

Am Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 schrieb Nick Boyce:
> Likewise, doing :
> # apt-cache search "debug symbols"|grep -i konq
> finds debug symbols for 305 other packages but not Konqueror.
>
> Can anyone tell me what to install so as to get usable crash dumps so
> as to become able to submit Konqueror bug reports ?

Please note that upstream likely is not interested anymore in bug reports
for such an old version of Konqueror. Cause a bug might already have been
fixed long ago.

So if you find the cause of the crashes I recommend to look at bugs.kde.org
for a similar backtrace and look whether it is fixed. If the fix is isolated
enough it might be okay to the Debian Qt/KDE team to cherry-pick it for
Squeeze packages. (I do not speak for them so you´d have to ask them.)

Otherwise alternative would be to use Debian Wheezy which is frozen now,
so any really disruptive changes before release are unlikely. Except for
removals of package that do not meet release quality criteria, i.e. have
RC bugs that remained unfixed for a long time.

Third alternative would be to test with Debian Wheezy on another machine –
be it virtual or not – and test for the existence of the crash there as
well. If so report upstream if not already done. Still any fix that KDE
developers provide needs to be backported to Squeeze.

I personally think I would opt for the third one – but beware at least
here Konqueror crashes often at the moment. I did not yet take the tame to
track this down except for the backtrace I provided here for comment.

Thanks,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Nick Boyce 07-26-2012 07:12 PM

Squeeze Konqueror Crashes - Need Debug Symbols
 
On Sunday 22 Jul 2012 11:07:27 Martin Steigerwald wrote:

> Please note that upstream likely is not interested anymore in bug reports
> for such an old version of Konqueror. Cause a bug might already have been
> fixed long ago.

Yeah, I was afraid of that - though it would be somewhat disappointing for
software that's just 2 years old ..... but we mustn't complain when we've been
given the software for free :)

> I recommend to look at bugs.kde.org for a similar backtrace and look
> whether it is fixed. If the fix is isolated enough it might be okay to
> the Debian Qt/KDE team to cherry-pick it for Squeeze packages.

I imagine a browser crash bug might be considered for fixing in a Debian point
release .... browsers being so central to the functionality of any OS these
days, and regular crashes being pretty much intolerable.

Funnily enough, since I installed the debug symbols suggested by Daniel S
Konqueror hasn't crashed once ..... I wonder whether this is a clue.

> Otherwise alternative would be to use Debian Wheezy which is frozen now,
> so any really disruptive changes before release are unlikely.

Right now it's true, as you say, that Wheezy is reliable (I have it in a VM) -
but in general I only use Stable for serious work, so I did want to know how
best to progress reporting these sort of crashes in Stable Debian.

> Third alternative would be to test with Debian Wheezy on another machine –
> be it virtual or not – and test for the existence of the crash there as
> well.

Yes, except that this particular crash syndrome is not yet reproducible at
will by me - I don't know what causes it. On one occasion I'd left the PC
unattended for an hour and when I came back found Konqueror in a heap on the
floor .....

> If so report upstream if not already done. Still any fix that KDE
> developers provide needs to be backported to Squeeze.

I assume they're usually happy to do that for a point release if the bug is
"serious" enough - though I've no idea how many devs are available for that
kind of work.

> beware at least here Konqueror crashes often at the moment.

That's dismal. Have you tried switching Konqueror to use 'kpart-webkit' ? I
installed ReKonq just to have a look ... maybe I'll switch to using it all the
time. I'd use Iceweasel except that I prefer fully-integrated KDE
applications, and I always liked the speed of Konqueror back in KDE 3 days.

Thanks for all your feedback - that's very helpful.

Nick
--
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers


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Nick Boyce 07-26-2012 07:27 PM

Squeeze Konqueror Crashes - Need Debug Symbols
 
On Thursday 26 Jul 2012 20:12:21 Nick Boyce wrote:

> Funnily enough, since I installed the debug symbols suggested by Daniel S
> Konqueror hasn't crashed once ..... I wonder whether this is a clue.

Ha ! That did it ..... all I had to do was write the words "hasn't crashed
once" in an email and Konqueror crashed almost straightaway :)

Immediately before the crash I'd used Konqueror's "Settings | Configure
Konqueror | Cookies" dialog to change the cookie policy for a domain I was
trying to access from 'Reject' to 'Ask', then clicked 'Ok', then clicked
'Back' to return to the page before the error page I'd been presented with
when the website failed to set its cookie, and *BANG* .... and on reflection I
think that sort of sequence might have preceded quite a few of the other
crashes too. Hmmm.

So I have a 3-star backtrace now - thanks everyone, and off to bugs.kde.org I
go.

Nick
--
General Relativity:
Space-time tells matter where to go;
Matter tells space-time what shape to be.


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Martin Steigerwald 07-27-2012 04:46 PM

Squeeze Konqueror Crashes - Need Debug Symbols
 
Am Donnerstag, 26. Juli 2012 schrieb Nick Boyce:
> On Thursday 26 Jul 2012 20:12:21 Nick Boyce wrote:
> > Funnily enough, since I installed the debug symbols suggested by
> > Daniel S Konqueror hasn't crashed once ..... I wonder whether this
> > is a clue.
>
> Ha ! That did it ..... all I had to do was write the words "hasn't
> crashed once" in an email and Konqueror crashed almost straightaway :)
>
> Immediately before the crash I'd used Konqueror's "Settings | Configure
> Konqueror | Cookies" dialog to change the cookie policy for a domain I
> was trying to access from 'Reject' to 'Ask', then clicked 'Ok', then
> clicked 'Back' to return to the page before the error page I'd been
> presented with when the website failed to set its cookie, and *BANG*
> .... and on reflection I think that sort of sequence might have
> preceded quite a few of the other crashes too. Hmmm.
>
> So I have a 3-star backtrace now - thanks everyone, and off to
> bugs.kde.org I go.

Please have a look whether your backtrace is similar to what I reported:

Bug 303914 - Crashes on accessing certain URLs
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303914

I have several URLs where it crashes 100% reproducably. Two of them in
above bug report. I didn´t note all of them.

Whats strange here is that Konqueror reports:

martin@merkaba:~> konqueror --version
Qt: 4.8.2
KDE: 4.8.4 (4.8.4)
Konqueror: 4.8.3 (4.8.3)

while 4.8.4 packages are installed.

See thread

qtwebkit 2.2.1-4+b1 + konqueror 4:4.8.4-1 : Lots of crashes

I started here some time ago.

Thanks,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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