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Old 06-20-2012, 07:45 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default KDE PIM packaging

Am Montag, 18. Juni 2012 schrieb Eshat Cakar:
> Hi Torsten,
> hi Martin,
>
> On Mon 18 June 2012 11:29:22 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > Am Samstag, 16. Juni 2012 schrieb Torsten Grote:
> > > I'd love to have some information, why the KDE PIM applications are
> > > at version 4.4.11.
> >
> > The switch to Akonadi for KMail is a big one. And I think even right
> > now there is no way of automatic migration thats working out okay in
> > most cases. > Thus the recommended procedure as far as I am aware of
> > is to recreate mail accounts and reimport mail from IMAP server or
> > POP3 mail directory. As far as I read its usually also necessary to
> > recreate all filter rules.
> >
> > I´d love to test KDEPIM 2,
>
> As martin correctly said, Kdepim 2 lacks migration and that is one
> reason it will not be included in wheezy.
> But we will provide packages for the curious testers like you, just
> after the team finishes the rest of the 4.8.4 transition, which has
> higher priority due to the wheezy freeze.

Thanks, that great to hear.

I think that helps us to get a handle on the current situation with KDEPIM
2. I always wanted to compile it myself, but didn´t come to it. When its
just an apt-get install away thats easier to handle for me.

Would it be sufficient for Debian when there is a step by step migration
guide that describes how to copy everything over manuelly by recreating
it? I am willing to help to document such migration steps once I migrate
to KDEPIM 2 myself.

Thanks,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Old 06-20-2012, 07:48 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default KDE PIM packaging

Am Dienstag, 19. Juni 2012 schrieb Modestas Vainius:
> Hello,
>
> On antradienis 19 Birželis 2012 19:43:12 Valerio Passini wrote:
> > martedì 19 giugno 2012
> >
> > I could understand this point of view if:
> > 1 - a tool to ease the migration it's going to be on the way any time
> > soon (in the next 2-3 years) before the release of what will be the
> > next stable after Wheezy, but if such tool is not in anybody's mind
> > I can only complain this decision.
> > 2 - this hypothetical migration tool will still hold a meaning,
> > considering the major changes that will come in the next future like
> > the entire KDE moving from 4.x to 5.x, with likely a lot of new
> > stuff. This will doom Debian to be always lagging in respect to KDE
> > releases, to miss new technology and to support mixed KDE
> > environment with piece of "old" KDE inside. This should scare the
> > developers more than users having troubles migrating emails, IMO.
>
> There is nothing wrong with having "old KDE inside" if it works. That
> said, I don't claim that pim 2 does not work. We simply don't know it
> and it's too late in the game to find out (IMHO). Inexistance of a
> good migration tool helps to make the decision though.
>
> FWIW, I'm pretty sure that migration won't ever be fixed. However,
> users will have more time to adjust at the start of the next release
> cycle. What is more, I think somebody will be kind enough and upload
> kdepim 4.8.4 to backports and wheezy users will have the best of two
> worlds (a choice) in the end.

I agree.

Better let us likely a bit more experienced Debian KDE users here on the
list test KDEPIM 2 for a while before letting it loose on all Debian KDE
users.

Thanks,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Old 06-20-2012, 07:52 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default KDE PIM packaging

Am Dienstag, 19. Juni 2012 schrieb Dietz Pröpper:
> Martin Steigerwald:
> > The switch to Akonadi for KMail is a big one.
>
> And a quite questionable, too.

Everything is questionable.

But I believe that the fundamental decision to use a database for metadata
is sound.

> > And I think even right now
> > there is no way of automatic migration thats working out okay in most
> > cases.
>
> Wow. What do they smoke over at KDE Central?

Not a very helpful comment in my oppinion. And nothing for me to follow up
on.

> > Thus the recommended procedure as far as I am aware of is to
> > recreate mail accounts and reimport mail from IMAP server or POP3
> > mail directory. As far as I read its usually also necessary to
> > recreate all filter rules.
>
> Fine. I have a ~/Mail around 1G in size and a forest of filter rules.
> This "recommended procedure" is simply not feasible for me.
>
> Add to this the quite braindama^W questionable idea to move not only
> metadata stuff but the complete maildir to akonadi, and *I* will be out
> of the game, for sure.

Even if repeated even more times it will not become true.

Akonadi is a metadata cache. Not the mail store.

So once again also here on this list:

Please read

Akonadi misconception #1: where is my data?
http://blogs.kde.org/node/4503

Thanks,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Old 06-20-2012, 08:30 AM
Kevin Krammer
 
Default KDE PIM packaging

On Tuesday, 2012-06-19, Modestas Vainius wrote:

> There is nothing wrong with having "old KDE inside" if it works. That said,
> I don't claim that pim 2 does not work. We simply don't know it and it's
> too late in the game to find out (IMHO). Inexistance of a good migration
> tool helps to make the decision though.
>
> FWIW, I'm pretty sure that migration won't ever be fixed. However, users
> will have more time to adjust at the start of the next release cycle. What
> is more, I think somebody will be kind enough and upload kdepim 4.8.4 to
> backports and wheezy users will have the best of two worlds (a choice) in
> the end.

The main problem with the migration tool is that the complexity of the mail
setup just does not fit into the constraints of the migrator framework used for
other data types.

I.e. for other data types it is sufficient to create one new backend connectors
for each old backend connector and transfer the respective config.

Mail setup has folder specific config, folder and mail item specific meta data,
etc. which requires the migrator to do a lot of mail structure and data
processing.

This also takes way longer than what is acceptable for a migrator that runs
automatically on first application start.

The correct solution is to make KMail2 start immediately but empty and detect
and offer import choices.

Cheers,
Kevin
 
Old 06-20-2012, 09:28 AM
Mirosław Zalewski
 
Default KDE PIM packaging

On 20/06/2012 at 09:45, Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de> wrote:

> Would it be sufficient for Debian when there is a step by step migration
> guide that describes how to copy everything over manuelly by recreating
> it? I am willing to help to document such migration steps once I migrate
> to KDEPIM 2 myself.

By the way, I recently stepped on that:
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDEPIM-4.7_upgrade
It seems to be good starting point for writing such documentation.
--
Best regards
Mirosław Zalewski


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Old 06-24-2012, 06:42 PM
Dietz Pröpper
 
Default KDE PIM packaging

Quoting myself,

Dietz Pröpper:
[stupid stuff]

my previous mail was never intended to get sent.

Sorry for that,
Dietz
 
Old 08-04-2012, 01:22 PM
Torsten Grote
 
Default KDE PIM packaging

Hi,

On Monday 18 June 2012 12:48:08 Eshat Cakar wrote:
> But we will provide packages for the curious testers like you, just after
> the team finishes the rest of the 4.8.4 transition, which has higher
> priority due to the wheezy freeze.

What's the status of the 4.8.4 transition? The freeze happened over a month
ago. Are you still busy with polishing KDE for wheezy?

Regards,
Torsten
 
Old 08-23-2012, 07:50 AM
Torsten Grote
 
Default KDE PIM packaging

On Saturday 04 August 2012 15:22:03 Torsten Grote wrote:
> On Monday 18 June 2012 12:48:08 Eshat Cakar wrote:
> > But we will provide packages for the curious testers like you, just after
> > the team finishes the rest of the 4.8.4 transition, which has higher
> > priority due to the wheezy freeze.
>
> What's the status of the 4.8.4 transition? The freeze happened over a
> month ago. Are you still busy with polishing KDE for wheezy?

Ok who do I have to bribe to get 4.8 or 4.9 KDE PIM packages? How much do you
want?

Is there anything that could be done to help with that? Is the summer to
blame?

Regards,
Torsten
 
Old 08-23-2012, 01:27 PM
Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer
 
Default KDE PIM packaging

On Thu 23 Aug 2012 04:50:14 Torsten Grote escribió:
[snip]
> Ok who do I have to bribe to get 4.8 or 4.9 KDE PIM packages? How much do
> you want?
>
> Is there anything that could be done to help with that? Is the summer to
> blame?

We currently lack the manpower to do this. We still have some RC bugs that
need fixing, so we have some other stuff to do before thinking in kdepim.

By the way, I don't know why you should blame the summer, I'm in the middle of
winter

Kinds regards, Lisandro.

--
Una vez que hemos eliminado lo imposible, lo que queda, por improbable que
parezca, es la verdad.
Sherlock Holmes

Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer
http://perezmeyer.com.ar/
http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/
 
Old 08-28-2012, 05:51 PM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default KDE PIM packaging

Am Donnerstag, 23. August 2012 schrieb Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez
Meyer:
> On Thu 23 Aug 2012 04:50:14 Torsten Grote escribió:
> [snip]
>
> > Ok who do I have to bribe to get 4.8 or 4.9 KDE PIM packages? How
> > much do you want?
> >
> > Is there anything that could be done to help with that? Is the summer
> > to blame?
>
> We currently lack the manpower to do this. We still have some RC bugs
> that need fixing, so we have some other stuff to do before thinking in
> kdepim.
>
> By the way, I don't know why you should blame the summer, I'm in the
> middle of winter

Well I understand that RC bugs go first .

As for KDEPIM 2 packaging: It seems to be good to use at least KDEPIM from
KDE SC 4.8.6 or 4.9.1:

---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ----------

Subject: Re: [kdepim-users] KMail2 at kdepim 4.9.0
Date: Samstag, 25. August 2012
From: Andras Mantia <amantia@kde.org>
To: kdepim-users@kde.org

Andras Mantia wrote:

> The only serious (ie. that could cause data loss) bug is with online
> imap
> accounts and local spam filtering. That is still not fixed, unfortunately
> the fix I tried didn't work. In that case you have two choices:
> - use a disconnected imap account (that just means mail bodies are
> completely downloaded)
> - do not use client-side spam filtering, but use sieve scripts server
> side

This one hopefully is fixed in 4.9.1, 4.8.6, 4.10.

Andras
_______________________________________________
KDE PIM users mailing list
Subscription management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdepim-
users

-------------------------------------------------------

There have been some reports there that with KDEPIM 4.9 things finally
start to look quite good.

Ciao,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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