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Old 05-13-2012, 08:08 AM
Eo
 
Default Good music player suggestion

Le samedi 12 mai 2012 14:09:19, Andrej Kacian a écrit :
> Hello,
>
> On Fri, 11 May 2012 12:45:26 +0200
> Mirosław Zalewski <miniopl@poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
>
> >Could you be more specific about the issue? Maybe it could be solved somehow.
> >
>
> Whenever MPD is playing, other audio sources freeze moments after starting, or
> error out - for example mplayer starts the video, but freezes up. Seeking
> works, but the picture always freezes again after a frame or two. As soon as I
> stop MPD playback, the video starts playing normally, with sound. The other
> way around - when mplayer is playing a video, MPD errors out with "error
> opening audio device".
>
> This happens with MPD and any other audio source (I've tried mplayer, various
> music players, system notification sounds, pidgin notification sounds and few
> more). All the mentioned sources work together just fine, MPD is the only one
> that doesn't play with others.
>
> I've tried both "alsa" and "pulse" audio output in MPD, with same result. MPD
> does support pulseaudio output (mpd --version).
>
> I guess this should belong to a bugreport for MPD, but since you asked...
>
> >I am using Cantata, KDE client for MPD. It has ability to play files outside
> >MPD database and "streams", but I have never used either, so I can't tell how
> >they are working.
>
> I'm mostly using mpc to control playback (via various keyboard shortcuts in
> KDE), and ncmpcpp (ncurses client) to adjust playlist.
>
>
>

Hello

To have sound in all application at the same time (amarok, smplayer, iceweasel, mumble)
# aptitude --purge remove pulseaudio
So, applications use alsa instead of pulseaudio :/


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Old 05-13-2012, 09:45 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default Good music player suggestion

Am Sonntag, 13. Mai 2012 schrieb Eo:
> Le samedi 12 mai 2012 14:09:19, Andrej Kacian a écrit :
> > Hello,
> >
> > On Fri, 11 May 2012 12:45:26 +0200
> >
> > Mirosław Zalewski <miniopl@poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
> > >Could you be more specific about the issue? Maybe it could be solved
> > >somehow.
> >
> > Whenever MPD is playing, other audio sources freeze moments after
> > starting, or error out - for example mplayer starts the video, but
> > freezes up. Seeking works, but the picture always freezes again
> > after a frame or two. As soon as I stop MPD playback, the video
> > starts playing normally, with sound. The other way around - when
> > mplayer is playing a video, MPD errors out with "error opening audio
> > device".
> >
> > This happens with MPD and any other audio source (I've tried mplayer,
> > various music players, system notification sounds, pidgin
> > notification sounds and few more). All the mentioned sources work
> > together just fine, MPD is the only one that doesn't play with
> > others.
> >
> > I've tried both "alsa" and "pulse" audio output in MPD, with same
> > result. MPD does support pulseaudio output (mpd --version).
> >
> > I guess this should belong to a bugreport for MPD, but since you
> > asked...
[…]
> To have sound in all application at the same time (amarok, smplayer,
> iceweasel, mumble) # aptitude --purge remove pulseaudio
> So, applications use alsa instead of pulseaudio :/

Although I do find that Pulseaudio - the version as currently packaged in
Debian - still has quite some pretty annoying bugs, it is perfectly
capable to mix different audio sources.

Challenge is that all applications need to support Pulseaudio and/or ALSA
is configured to use Pulseaudio by default. AFAIK current Pulseaudio
packages for Debian install a system-wide ALSA config file to achieve this.

Only thing when you use two users, play music in one X session and then
switch to the other session: Then Pulseaudio mutes/stops the first session.
If you do not like that, you need to use Pulseaudio in system wide mode -
one Pulseaudio running as root - which is not officially supported and
currently requires to edit "exit 0" into the start-pulseaudio-kde script
everytime it is updated. This could probably be pinned by a dpkg-divert or
somesuch however.

Other annoying things:

- Cannot handle USB sound cards with lots of channels like Sonica Theater.

- Sometimes chokes with "usb_set_interface_failed" (lots of messages) and
doesn´t detect the sound card at all then. This mostly happens on older
not so fast hardware like my ThinkPad T23 Amarok machine here.

For that reason I removed Pulseaudio on that machine.

So while I can perfectly understand the "apt-get purge pulseaudio" reflex
and I did it myself quite some times, I know that Pulseaudio can mix
together different audio sources. And it seems to do that at a higher
quality than ALSA.

Ciao,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Old 05-13-2012, 10:04 AM
Modestas Vainius
 
Default Good music player suggestion

Hello,

On sekmadienis 13 Gegužė 2012 12:45:27 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> So while I can perfectly understand the "apt-get purge pulseaudio" reflex
> and I did it myself quite some times, I know that Pulseaudio can mix
> together different audio sources. And it seems to do that at a higher
> quality than ALSA.

And what about latency?

--
Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org>
 
Old 05-13-2012, 10:21 AM
Mirosław Zalewski
 
Default Good music player suggestion

On 12/05/2012 at 14:09, Andrej Kacian <andrej+debian@kacian.sk> wrote:

> Whenever MPD is playing, other audio sources freeze moments after starting,
> or error out - for example mplayer starts the video, but freezes up.
> Seeking works, but the picture always freezes again after a frame or two.
> As soon as I stop MPD playback, the video starts playing normally, with
> sound. The other way around - when mplayer is playing a video, MPD errors
> out with "error opening audio device".

I am afraid the issue may be caused by your hardware (strictly speaking: Linux
driver for your hardware) or configuration.

I had similar audio-mixing problems on Gentoo back in 2006, but that was
matter of editing one or two configuration files. On Debian I have never had any
problem like that.

I am using default Debian ALSA and PulseAudio config files. In my /etc/mpd.conf
I have just:
#v+
audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "My ALSA Device"
}
#v-

Do you happen to have ~/.asoundrc or asound.conf file laying somewhere in your
/etc/? Or maybe you have configured PulseAudio config files?

You may want to move these files somewhere else and check if your issues
persist. If so, then it might be good idea to ask on debian-user mailing list
of MPD forum/mailing list. Unfortunately, I don't know that much about Linux
audio to help you.

HTH
--
Best regards
Mirosław Zalewski


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Old 05-13-2012, 12:20 PM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default Good music player suggestion

Am Sonntag, 13. Mai 2012 schrieb Modestas Vainius:
> Hello,
>
> On sekmadienis 13 Gegužė 2012 12:45:27 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > So while I can perfectly understand the "apt-get purge pulseaudio"
> > reflex and I did it myself quite some times, I know that Pulseaudio
> > can mix together different audio sources. And it seems to do that at
> > a higher quality than ALSA.
>
> And what about latency?

Hmmm, good one. Beware rant ahead:

I do not seek around during audio playback a lot, so I don´t have much
first hand experience. And then Amarok + Phonon is in between as well when
I press play or seek. So its difficult to say what is causing which
latencies.

But I had quite some long lasting audio hichups on that machine, even up
to about a minute (!) although rtkit was installed and promoted pulseaudio
threads to real time priority. I was quite puzzled by this and already
thought audio playback has completely stopped. But eventually it continued
then. (Rarely Amarok just stopped playing for whatever reason.)

That might be related to the aged BTRFS filesystems on the machine, that
are quite slow at the moment. (So slow that a SSH login can take 15
seconds to the prompt - with I/O accesses happening. Not to speak of
installing or removing packages via dpkg. I consider redoing the
filesystems or trying to balance them - but then balancing the / filesystem
on my T520 has lead to a serious performance loss that I reverted by
redoing that filesystem from scratch. So maybe I will switch to Ext4 as
well. Or replace the T23 by the T42 I have not in regular use right now.)

But then, after removing Pulseaudio I rarely get hichups anymore - with
the same BTRFS filesystems in use - and when so there are just a knack for
a fraction of a second. Ideally I would get no hicchups at all and it once
was so. (2.6.23 kernel here CFS was introduced, but then this has been
XFS.).

On the ThinkPad T520 I am writing this mail on I have no such issues, but
it has way more processing power and dualcore with hyperthreading
(Sandybridge i5) + Intel SSD 320 - high latencies on this machine would
point to really inefficient software I think. Seeks during movie playing are
fast in Kaffeine, which AFAIR still uses Xine directly, but with VLC when I
press pause audio plays plays on for some seconds, and when I resume it
takes some seconds till I hear audio again. (But then in Kaffeine DVD menus
are somewhat broken at times, Kaffeine doesn´t react on mouse clicks on
menu entries, while they work fine in VLC.)

So no, I am not convinced regarding the overhead that Pulseaudio seemed to
introduce. It does not seem to matter much on faster machines, but on
lower end devices I have seen a big difference.

I would like the mixing routines in ALSA be brought to a quality that
Pulseaudio can provide and have all of this in kernel.

For me Pulseaudio is quite controversial. The bugs, the audio hichups I
did not have in that amount and length before, all not that convincing to
me. But the sound output quality via USB sound card has been awesome.

That said in the whole I think multimedia experience could be a lot better
on Linux. You probably would understand what I mean when I show you
Sam440ep 667 PowerPC embedded media playback performance and latency on
AmigaOS 4.1 [1]. It had difficulty playing DVD decently, but on what it
could play with DvPlayer, reaction to seeks has been instant.

Maybe with MPlayer on Linux. But then thats the most uncomfortable player
I have ever seen.

I´d like:
- good gui
- DVD + DVD menus work nicely
- instant seeks (low latency)
- automatically moves to USB soundcard if available (Pulseaudio moves
faster than Phonon alone I found, if configured properly. But sometimes it
doesn´t recnognize the USB sound card correctly and sometimes I need to
use pavucontrol to switch outputs although in Phonon settings the USB
sound card is first)
- easy to understand and configure

I have the feeling that there are too many layers involved and thus to
many ways to introduce bugs and too many combinations to test.

[1] While its not completely fair, cause using Totem on Linux and MPlayer
on AmigaOS 4.1 and Linux may not have accelerated video drivers for that
machine, its still impressive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_1PjOEFPTk

(sure AmigaOS 4.1 does less, has no memory protection and stuff like that,
but still I do think Linux should be able to do better)

--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Old 05-13-2012, 02:06 PM
Andrej Kacian
 
Default Good music player suggestion

On Sun, 13 May 2012 10:08:32 +0200
Eo <ehorinn@singularity.fr> wrote:

>To have sound in all application at the same time (amarok, smplayer,
>iceweasel, mumble) # aptitude --purge remove pulseaudio
>So, applications use alsa instead of pulseaudio :/

Yes, that works if you have a sound card which supports hardware mixing, which
onboard Intel cards tend not to have.

By the way, that is the only reason I keep an ancient SB Live PCI card in my
main desktop, even though I have to reconnect the speakers to onboard Intel
card when I boot into Windows 7, since I couldn't find drivers for such an old
card.

Regards,
--
Andrej Kacian


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Old 05-13-2012, 02:10 PM
Andrej Kacian
 
Default Good music player suggestion

On Sun, 13 May 2012 12:21:09 +0200
Mirosław Zalewski <miniopl@poczta.onet.pl> wrote:

>You may want to move these files somewhere else and check if your issues
>persist. If so, then it might be good idea to ask on debian-user mailing list
>of MPD forum/mailing list. Unfortunately, I don't know that much about Linux
>audio to help you.

This is a pretty new install, and I haven't tinkered with pulseaudio config at
all (it's kind of a terra incognita to me, I do not want to touch it). Driver
is pretty widely used hda_intel, so I doubt that's the problem. Also the fact
that everything but MPD works fine would suggest that driver or PA
configuration is not the problem.

Anyway, I do not care enough to bother troubleshooting it. I nixed mpd from
the system and am happily using Qmmp instead.

Regards,
--
Andrej Kacian


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Old 05-13-2012, 02:28 PM
Mirosław Zalewski
 
Default Good music player suggestion

On 13/05/2012 at 16:10, Andrej Kacian <andrej+debian@kacian.sk> wrote:

> Driver
> is pretty widely used hda_intel, so I doubt that's the problem. Also the
> fact that everything but MPD works fine would suggest that driver or PA
> configuration is not the problem.

The most strange part is that I am using Intel built-in sound card with
snd_hda_intel kernel module. So my setup is quite similar to yours, yet I
don't have problem you encounter.

Sorry I was not able to help you, but I am glad you have found setup that
suits your needs.
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Mirosław Zalewski


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Old 05-24-2012, 07:17 PM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default Good music player suggestion

Am Sonntag, 13. Mai 2012 schrieb Modestas Vainius:
> Hello,
>
> On sekmadienis 13 Gegužė 2012 12:45:27 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > So while I can perfectly understand the "apt-get purge pulseaudio"
> > reflex and I did it myself quite some times, I know that Pulseaudio
> > can mix together different audio sources. And it seems to do that at
> > a higher quality than ALSA.
>
> And what about latency?

Ok, today after that

May 24 21:02:39 merkaba pulseaudio[31446]: [pulseaudio] alsa-mixer.c: Volume element PCM has 8
channels. That's too much! I can't handle that!
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba pulseaudio[31446]: [pulseaudio] alsa-mixer.c: Volume element PCM has 8
channels. That's too much! I can't handle that!
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba pulseaudio[31446]: [pulseaudio] alsa-mixer.c: Volume element PCM has 8
channels. That's too much! I can't handle that!
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.895613] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.896148] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.896454] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.897051] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.897544] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.898175] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.898409] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.898658] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.899164] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.899820] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.900591] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.901068] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.901578] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.902205] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed
May 24 21:02:39 merkaba kernel: [55463.903366] 12:2:4: usb_set_interface failed

madness even on my ThinkPad T520 Pulseaudio 2.0 is gone from my main system
as well.

And guess what with VLC I had a latency for audio playback. After pressing
play the video started immediately but sound was 1-2 seconds late.

This is just gone now with VLC directly using ALSA.

--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Old 05-25-2012, 10:38 PM
Modestas Vainius
 
Default Good music player suggestion

Hello,

On ketvirtadienis 24 Gegužė 2012 22:17:26 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> And guess what with VLC I had a latency for audio playback. After pressing
> play the video started immediately but sound was 1-2 seconds late.
>
> This is just gone now with VLC directly using ALSA.

Hehe, the last nail in the PulseAudio coffin

--
Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org>
 

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