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Old 03-15-2012, 09:42 AM
"Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda"
 
Default Options for kdepim using kde 4.7/unstable?

A Dimarts 13 Març 2012, Sune Vuorela va escriure:
> On 2012-03-13, Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org> wrote:
> > kdepim 4.7 is crap, you don't want to use it
> > if you value your data.
>
> I officially disagree.

I don't know if it's a crap or not, but how can I test it with debian? What's
the problem with kdepim?

I'm sorry if it's a obvious question, but kdepim 4.4 lacks a lot of features,
specially webdav, caldav, etc and it's a pity to have a wonderful kde 4.7.4
with an old kdepim.

Leo

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Old 03-15-2012, 09:42 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default Options for kdepim using kde 4.7/unstable?

Am Dienstag, 13. März 2012 schrieb Sune Vuorela:
> On 2012-03-13, Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org> wrote:
> > kdepim 4.7 is crap, you don't want to use it
> > if you value your data.
>
> I officially disagree.

Hmmm. I never did test it.

From what I read on kdepim and kdepim-users mailing lists there have been
quite some users having had severe issues with it. There may be quite some
users not having issues and these may be less vocal about it tough.

Anyway I read that KDE developers fixed lots and lots of bugs have for
KDEPIM 4.8 and 4.8.1 and are still being fixed. And did quite some
performance improvements.

Thus from what said I suggest not to use the older KDEPIM 4.7.x, but
instead KDEPIM 4.8.1 or (preferably) 4.8.2 when its out or even 4.8.3 or
later. I do hope that later 4.8.x versions of KDEPIM will be suitable for
production use and I wonder what the plans on official KDEPIM 2 packages for
Debian are.

I think at some time it makes sense to actually try it. I am quite
reluctant still since I have a ton of a lot of mails in lots of folders
received via POP3 and I do not want to run into any data loss issues. Sure
I have backups, but not daily and loosing mail isn´t fun.

Maybe its time for IMAP, but there have had been a report on mail losses
via IMAP as well[1][2]. And I am not talking about meta data here. I know
Akonadi only stores metadata and just caches mail bodies for a limited
about of time.

Well anyway I do think its no digital crap / no crap. But it had severe
bugs and I think it is still maturing a lot.

From what I read. As written, I didn´t yet test it myself. I thought about
duplicating all my mails on the server and use KDEPIM 2 in a VM with the
duplicated account, but OTOH I´d like to avoid this extra work.

Thus I´d like to be confident that all mail loss issues have been fixed and
watch that no new reports on mail losses appear for a while. That said,
also KDEPIM 1 did have some mail loss issues AFAIR - index and low free
disk space related. But at least the index related one I remember was more
of a metadata issue that could be fixed by stopping KMail, deleting the
index file of the folder and then starting it again.

I can stand some other bugs and issues. KDEPIM 4.4.5 also still has some.
But mail loss is something I like to avoid. There is no 100% guarentee
ever I know tough. I also try out BTRFS since about a year already, so I
think I take some risk with KDEPIM 2 as well. And I think the point when I
like to try it is approaching in the next months.


[1] [Kde-pim] 4.8.1 + akoandi 1.7.0 + bogofilter results in mail loss
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.devel.pim/32830

(I do use CRM114 for local filtering, so that may apply to me too).

[2] [Kde-pim] Mail loss when moving email while it is downloaded
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-pim&m=132846426028371

Ciao,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Old 03-15-2012, 09:50 AM
Sune Vuorela
 
Default Options for kdepim using kde 4.7/unstable?

On 2012-03-15, Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de> wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 13. März 2012 schrieb Sune Vuorela:
>> On 2012-03-13, Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org> wrote:
>> > kdepim 4.7 is crap, you don't want to use it
>> > if you value your data.
>>
>> I officially disagree.
>
> Hmmm. I never did test it.

on my laptop which runs kde master I have been using it since may.

/Sune


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Old 03-15-2012, 09:58 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default Options for kdepim using kde 4.7/unstable?

Am Donnerstag, 15. März 2012 schrieb Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda:
> A Dimarts 13 Març 2012, Sune Vuorela va escriure:
> > On 2012-03-13, Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org> wrote:
> > > kdepim 4.7 is crap, you don't want to use it
> > > if you value your data.
> >
> > I officially disagree.
>
> I don't know if it's a crap or not, but how can I test it with debian?
> What's the problem with kdepim?
>
> I'm sorry if it's a obvious question, but kdepim 4.4 lacks a lot of
> features, specially webdav, caldav, etc and it's a pity to have a
> wonderful kde 4.7.4 with an old kdepim.

I tried to give some quick overview in my other mail. My issue is that I
want to be quite confident that any possible remaining data loss issue has
been fixed. I did not yet test it myself, but I do read kdepim and kdepim-
users mailing lists regularily in the last months to get an impression on
the current state.

Anyway, I suggest that you also subscribe to at least kdepim-users when
you like to try out KDEPIM 2 right now. You may read there about some
issues users who already use it seem to have. I think it does not make
that much sense to replicate that information here. There are issues with
mail search - not that it ever worked really nice with KDEPIM 1 IMHO -,
auto completion, there are some performance issues with Akonadi Nepomuk
feeding that I hope will be mostly resolved with KDEPIM 4.8.2 and some
other usability stuff as far as I remember from my reading right now.

Anyway once I am confident that any known mail loss issues have been fixed
and no new one appeared for a while I really do like to use it and
contribute with bug reports for any issue I still see then. KDE developers
are working really hard to make the Akonadi based KDEPIM rocking and I
really do appreciate it. I think in the short to middle term it will be
better than KDEPIM 1. And in the long term it will leave it behind
completely. As I do think the architecture to use a database like approach
to PIM metadata is a good one.

Its a bit like all the big changes in KDE SC 4.0. There it also took
developers and testers also quite a while to make it production ready. I
do think KDEPIM 2 is getting there now. About two major releases after
introducing it to KDE SC again with KDE SC 4.6. KDE SC 4.2 also was also
way better then KDE SC 4.0 and the first one I installed onto on my Debian
systems. So I do think that I like to test it soon. Two or three major
releases after initial release + some minor release added to the mix, lets
say 4.8.2 or 4.9.1 should be quite good I bet .

--
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:08 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default Options for kdepim using kde 4.7/unstable?

Am Donnerstag, 15. März 2012 schrieb Sune Vuorela:
> On 2012-03-15, Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de> wrote:
> > Am Dienstag, 13. März 2012 schrieb Sune Vuorela:
> >> On 2012-03-13, Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org> wrote:
> >> > kdepim 4.7 is crap, you don't want to use it
> >> > if you value your data.
> >>
> >> I officially disagree.
> >
> > Hmmm. I never did test it.
>
> on my laptop which runs kde master I have been using it since may.

And your experience is good I read out of your "I officially disagree".

You didn´t have any mail loss issues? That the thing I am the most
concerned about - as this ThinkPad T520 with Intel SSD 320 should level
through quite some of the reported performance issues and I can live with
some usability issues that may still left. Heck, since KDE SC 4.7.4 even
Nepomuk desktop search is quite unobtrusive here while previous versions
even got this laptop quite busy.

Well I think I really do like to give it a try.

What Akonadi backend do you use? Some time ago I switched from SQLite3
that I used before to PostgreSQL as I read some MySQL related InnoDB
configuration issue with sudden abruption of write operations due to power
loss or kernel crash. For KAddressBook which already uses Akonadi in
KDEPIM 4.4.5 this works nicely. I once had to delete some PostgreSQL lock
to have the database started again after some crash - I reported this on
bugs.kde.org -, but aside from that its fine.

Thanks,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Old 03-15-2012, 10:20 AM
Sune Vuorela
 
Default Options for kdepim using kde 4.7/unstable?

On 2012-03-15, Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de> wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 15. März 2012 schrieb Sune Vuorela:
>> On 2012-03-15, Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de> wrote:
>> > Am Dienstag, 13. März 2012 schrieb Sune Vuorela:
>> >> On 2012-03-13, Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org> wrote:
>> >> > kdepim 4.7 is crap, you don't want to use it
>> >> > if you value your data.
>> >>
>> >> I officially disagree.
>> >
>> > Hmmm. I never did test it.
>>
>> on my laptop which runs kde master I have been using it since may.
>
> And your experience is good I read out of your "I officially disagree".
>
> You didn?t have any mail loss issues? That the thing I am the most
> concerned about - as this ThinkPad T520 with Intel SSD 320 should level

as far as I_know, I haven't lost any mails

There has of course from time to time been temporary glitches when you
use master branch, but still all in all it has been a quite ok
experience.

> What Akonadi backend do you use? Some time ago I switched from SQLite3
> that I used before to PostgreSQL as I read some MySQL related InnoDB
> configuration issue with sudden abruption of write operations due to power
> loss or kernel crash. For KAddressBook which already uses Akonadi in
> KDEPIM 4.4.5 this works nicely. I once had to delete some PostgreSQL lock
> to have the database started again after some crash - I reported this on
> bugs.kde.org -, but aside from that its fine.

I wouldn't use the sqlite backend, given it is slow and ineffective.
I used mysql because it was the thing that works out of the box.

/Sune


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Old 03-15-2012, 11:07 AM
Modestas Vainius
 
Default Options for kdepim using kde 4.7/unstable?

Hello,

On 2012 m. of March 15 d., Thursday 12:42:17 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 13. März 2012 schrieb Sune Vuorela:
> > On 2012-03-13, Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org> wrote:
> > > kdepim 4.7 is crap, you don't want to use it
> > > if you value your data.
> >
> > I officially disagree.
>
> Hmmm. I never did test it.
>
> From what I read on kdepim and kdepim-users mailing lists there have been
> quite some users having had severe issues with it. There may be quite some
> users not having issues and these may be less vocal about it tough.
>
> Anyway I read that KDE developers fixed lots and lots of bugs have for
> KDEPIM 4.8 and 4.8.1 and are still being fixed. And did quite some
> performance improvements.
>
> Thus from what said I suggest not to use the older KDEPIM 4.7.x, but
> instead KDEPIM 4.8.1 or (preferably) 4.8.2 when its out or even 4.8.3 or
> later. I do hope that later 4.8.x versions of KDEPIM will be suitable for
> production use and I wonder what the plans on official KDEPIM 2 packages
> for Debian are.

FWIW, I was referring to kdepim 4.7, not *4.8*. In fact, we will probably
upload kdepim 4.8.x together with KDE SC 4.8.x. But that's for future.

I said it was crap because I actually lost mails with kdepim 4.7 when I tried
it.


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Old 03-15-2012, 11:51 AM
José Manuel Santamaría Lema
 
Default Options for kdepim using kde 4.7/unstable?

"Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda" <leo@alaxarxa.net>
> A Dimarts 13 Març 2012, Sune Vuorela va escriure:
> > On 2012-03-13, Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org> wrote:
> > > kdepim 4.7 is crap, you don't want to use it
> > > if you value your data.
> >
> > I officially disagree.
>
> I don't know if it's a crap or not, but how can I test it with debian?
> What's the problem with kdepim?
>
> I'm sorry if it's a obvious question, but kdepim 4.4 lacks a lot of
> features, specially webdav, caldav, etc and it's a pity to have a
> wonderful kde 4.7.4 with an old kdepim.
>
> Leo
>

Read this mailing list archives.
 
Old 03-15-2012, 11:54 AM
José Manuel Santamaría Lema
 
Default Options for kdepim using kde 4.7/unstable?

Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org>
> FWIW, I was referring to kdepim 4.7, not *4.8*. In fact, we will probably
> upload kdepim 4.8.x together with KDE SC 4.8.x. But that's for future.

Let me clarify that there isn't any official plan wrt kdepim 4.7 nor 4.8, since
we didn't discussed it as a team (yet).
 
Old 03-15-2012, 12:29 PM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default Options for kdepim using kde 4.7/unstable?

Am Donnerstag, 15. März 2012 schrieb Modestas Vainius:
> Hello,

Hi Modestas,

> On 2012 m. of March 15 d., Thursday 12:42:17 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > Am Dienstag, 13. März 2012 schrieb Sune Vuorela:
> > > On 2012-03-13, Modestas Vainius <modax@debian.org> wrote:
> > > > kdepim 4.7 is crap, you don't want to use it
> > > > if you value your data.
> > >
> > > I officially disagree.
> >
> > Hmmm. I never did test it.
> >
> > From what I read on kdepim and kdepim-users mailing lists there have
> > been quite some users having had severe issues with it. There may be
> > quite some users not having issues and these may be less vocal about
> > it tough.
> >
> > Anyway I read that KDE developers fixed lots and lots of bugs have
> > for KDEPIM 4.8 and 4.8.1 and are still being fixed. And did quite
> > some performance improvements.
> >
> > Thus from what said I suggest not to use the older KDEPIM 4.7.x, but
> > instead KDEPIM 4.8.1 or (preferably) 4.8.2 when its out or even
> > 4.8.3 or later. I do hope that later 4.8.x versions of KDEPIM will
> > be suitable for production use and I wonder what the plans on
> > official KDEPIM 2 packages for Debian are.
>
> FWIW, I was referring to kdepim 4.7, not *4.8*.

Yes, I know. I didn´t want to hint at something else.

> In fact, we will
> probably upload kdepim 4.8.x together with KDE SC 4.8.x. But that's
> for future.
>
> I said it was crap because I actually lost mails with kdepim 4.7 when I
> tried it.

Well thats exactly what I like to avoid .

Thanks for clarifying,
--
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