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Old 06-06-2010, 10:29 PM
Modestas Vainius
 
Default broken kde notifications

Hello,

On sekmadienis 06 Birželis 2010 23:02:53 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> On Monday 07 Jun 2010 01:21:49 Modestas Vainius wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > On sekmadienis 06 Birželis 2010 20:45:54 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> > > Thanks. Purging notification-daemon solved the problem.
> > >
> > > Should the kde-full or kde-desktop metapackage have a conflicts on
> > > stuff like these ? An end user will not be aware how the notifications
> > > went broken.
> >
> > Now ask yourself if it really makes sense for KDE to conflict with GNOME
> > at packaging level. My reaction would be: huh, KDE and GNOME cannot be
> > installed on the system, wtf?
>
> Okay!! But please fix this. If I have a KDE DE and a bunch of gtk/gnome
> tools which pull in notification-daemon, KDE's notification gets hijacked.

There is nothing for us to fix. Maintainers are not responsible for the messed
up configuration of your system. In KDE 3 times, if you ran any GNOME app,
gnome-setttings-daemon would take over your desktop (wallpaper, shortcuts
etc.). So if this still happens to a lesser extent nowadays, that's a rough
life but it is not really a job of KDE to fight GNOME at all costs. It is the
job of GNOME to be friendly.

If you want to complain to somebody, complain to the maintainers of the
offensive application which triggered this for you (maybe some self-centric
gnome (or whatever?) configuration tool?). Finally, KDE should not go against
user wishes if (s)he wants to use notification-daemon for whatever reason.

As Kevin said, you should better find out how notification-daemon ended up
being started *before* plasma-desktop behind your back. That would be
interesting.

--
Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
 
Old 06-07-2010, 06:01 AM
Adrian von Bidder
 
Default broken kde notifications

On Monday 07 June 2010 00.29:34 Modestas Vainius wrote:

[GNOME and KDE fighting over notifications]

> There is nothing for us to fix. Maintainers are not responsible for the
> messed up configuration of your system.

I think this is a bit a narrow minded view. There may be nothing wrong at
the package dependencies level, but *if* it can (easily) be reproduced,
packagers and upstream alike should be involved. Cross project coordination
(like, making GNOME and KDE play together nicely) is what Linnux
distributions are all about because the upstream developers often don't care
much about this.

Note that I don't see any cause for action on this specific issue beyond
perhaps try to help the OP debug where the problem comes from. Ritesh: if
you log out, then remove .xsession errors (from remote or a text console
login or whatever), then log in: maybe you can see something suspicious
there.

Also: is there anything in any .xsessionrc or /etc/X11/Xsession.d file that
might start any gnome component? Any leftover entries in .kde or
.local/.config (sorry, you'll have to hunt around. I'm not familiar enough
with the desktop stuff to know where autostart stuff is hiding.)

cheers
-- vbi

(and if this sounds like a rant at the start, then because it should. The
GNOME vs. KDE divide is hurting Linux on the Desktop a lot in my opinion.
Stuff like "I configured my [KDE] desktop to use a pale pink color, but
Gimp/oo.org/Firefox/... don't take this setting" (also: web proxy settings,
whatever) are easy to understand if one knows the technical background but
are a no-go area for beginners/non-techies who just want their computer to
work. Projects like freedesktop.org have helped a lot, but there's still a
long way to go.)

--
By the most objective criteria, death is the greatest obstacle to marriage.
-- Russel Coker
http://etbe.coker.com.au/2009/01/30/support-straight-marriage/
 
Old 06-07-2010, 06:52 AM
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
 
Default broken kde notifications

Thanks Modestas,

On Monday 07 Jun 2010 03:59:34 Modestas Vainius wrote:
> There is nothing for us to fix. Maintainers are not responsible for the
> messed up configuration of your system. In KDE 3 times, if you ran any
> GNOME app, gnome-setttings-daemon would take over your desktop (wallpaper,
> shortcuts etc.). So if this still happens to a lesser extent nowadays,
> that's a rough life but it is not really a job of KDE to fight GNOME at
> all costs. It is the job of GNOME to be friendly.
>

Looks like I haven't used GNOME in a very long time.

> If you want to complain to somebody, complain to the maintainers of the
> offensive application which triggered this for you (maybe some
> self-centric gnome (or whatever?) configuration tool?). Finally, KDE
> should not go against user wishes if (s)he wants to use
> notification-daemon for whatever reason.
>

It got pulled in through a Recommends of ogmrip (which is from debian-
multimedia)

12:17:19 rrs@champaran:/tmp/kde-rrs/notification-daemon/usr/share $ aptitude
why notification-daemon
i ogmrip Depends libnotify1 (>= 0.4.5)
i A libnotify1 Recommends notification-daemon


> As Kevin said, you should better find out how notification-daemon ended up
> being started before plasma-desktop behind your back. That would be
> interesting.

I guess this might be the cause.

12:17:14 rrs@champaran:/tmp/kde-rrs/notification-daemon/usr/share $ cat
dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
[D-BUS Service]
Name=org.freedesktop.Notifications
Exec=/usr/lib/notification-daemon/notification-daemon


Ritesh
--
Ritesh Raj Sarraf | http://people.debian.org/~rrs
 
Old 06-07-2010, 08:08 AM
Modestas Vainius
 
Default broken kde notifications

Hello,

On pirmadienis 07 Birželis 2010 09:52:33 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> > As Kevin said, you should better find out how notification-daemon ended
> > up being started before plasma-desktop behind your back. That would be
> > interesting.
>
> I guess this might be the cause.
>
> 12:17:14 rrs@champaran:/tmp/kde-rrs/notification-daemon/usr/share $ cat
> dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
> [D-BUS Service]
> Name=org.freedesktop.Notifications
> Exec=/usr/lib/notification-daemon/notification-daemon

Oh yeah, so apparently, notification-daemon thinks it is the only one capable
of providing this service. As far as I understand, *.service files serve the
purpose of startup "on demand" and the same service can't be specified by
multiple applications.

Unless I'm wrong, I would open a bug against notification-daemon if I were
you.

--
Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
 
Old 06-07-2010, 08:35 AM
Modestas Vainius
 
Default broken kde notifications

Hello,

On pirmadienis 07 Birželis 2010 09:01:39 Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> On Monday 07 June 2010 00.29:34 Modestas Vainius wrote:
>
> [GNOME and KDE fighting over notifications]
>
> > There is nothing for us to fix. Maintainers are not responsible for the
> > messed up configuration of your system.
>
> I think this is a bit a narrow minded view. There may be nothing wrong at
> the package dependencies level, but *if* it can (easily) be reproduced,
> packagers and upstream alike should be involved. Cross project
> coordination (like, making GNOME and KDE play together nicely) is what
> Linnux
> distributions are all about because the upstream developers often don't
> care much about this.

Probably I should have said "KDE maintainers". KDE does nothing wrong here and
is not acting offensive. But if we added conflicts, that would be harsh!

--
Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
 

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