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Old 05-05-2010, 08:24 PM
Ana Guerrero
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

Hi,

Given no everybody reads planet Debian, here goes a copy of
http://ekaia.org/blog/2010/05/05/kde-443-in-unstable/


Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has finally
found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours.
Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next point
release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian stable,
Squeeze. What this means: go and update to 4.4.3, test, and when you find a
bug, please, follow this instructions [0]. If you are lazy to read it: report
upstream bugs at the KDE Bugzilla and report the packaging/integration bugs in
the Debian BTS. When in doubt, you have the Debian KDE mailing list [1], that is
being successful so far in maintaining a good signal-noise ratio.

I would like highlight the drop in the open bugs in the BTS experimented in
the last 2-3 months, I published this graph in February:

http://ekaia.org/img-blog/2010/ALL_3years-February2009.png

And look at the situation now:

http://ekaia.org/img-blog/2010/ALL_3years-May2010.png

This is mainly due to the great work of Eckhart Wörner. Also there is other
people who contributed to it more modestly, a big thank you to all of you!

As you can see in the second graph, there are less than 1000 bugs open now in
the BTS, they are still too much and time has taught us it is very easy going
over 1000 again, so we still welcome more volunteers looking at bugs.

If you are not the bugsquasher type, you can write HTML and you do some IRC,
we also need somebody to help us reorganize a bit the pkg-kde website[2]. I will
help you personally on this task, but it is good if you can lurk by IRC and
you are not scared to share your doubts with the rest of the team there.

Finally, I promise I will publish something about the status of KOffice
pre-2.2 in Debian, but I still can not say whether it will be in Squeeze.

[0]
http://ekaia.org/blog/2009/09/26/how-to-get-your-bugs-solved-in-debian-kde/
[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-kde/
[2] http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/



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Old 05-05-2010, 09:21 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Wednesday 05 May 2010 15:24:49 Ana Guerrero wrote:
> Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has finally
> found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours.
> Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next point
> release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian stable,
> Squeeze.

Please, please, don't do this.

In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail -> Akonadi
-> mysql-server).

In 4.3, this is not true. From what I hear on upstream mailing lists, this
won't be true in 4.5. Upstream is already aware and working on the issue, but
it falls under "new feature" so it won't be included in the 4.4.x line.

For me, KDE 4.4 is the most broken KDE release since 4.1 (I didn't try 4.0).
I'd rather have 4.3.x in Squeeze than 4.4.

Actually, I like most of KDE 4.4 and am currently using it for day-to-day
work. I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 since I
have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I already run
PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite installed.)

Please don't force an "Akonadi-enabled" PIM suite on stable users before they
are provided with an Akonadi that can use something other than MySQL.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 05-05-2010, 09:58 PM
Ana Guerrero
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 04:21:15PM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 May 2010 15:24:49 Ana Guerrero wrote:
> > Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has finally
> > found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours.
> > Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next point
> > release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian stable,
> > Squeeze.
>
> Please, please, don't do this.
>
> In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail -> Akonadi
> -> mysql-server).
>
> In 4.3, this is not true. From what I hear on upstream mailing lists, this
> won't be true in 4.5. Upstream is already aware and working on the issue, but
> it falls under "new feature" so it won't be included in the 4.4.x line.
>
> For me, KDE 4.4 is the most broken KDE release since 4.1 (I didn't try 4.0).
> I'd rather have 4.3.x in Squeeze than 4.4.
>
> Actually, I like most of KDE 4.4 and am currently using it for day-to-day
> work. I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 since I
> have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I already run
> PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite installed.)
>
> Please don't force an "Akonadi-enabled" PIM suite on stable users before they
> are provided with an Akonadi that can use something other than MySQL.

KDE 4.4 is the current stable release, there is not much more options here
with the freeze happening around the summer *before* 4.5 is out.
Good news is you have at least a couple of months to develop a patch for this.

ana


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Old 05-05-2010, 10:07 PM
Alejandro Exojo
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

El Miércoles, 5 de Mayo de 2010, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. escribió:
> In 4.3, this is not true. *From what I hear on upstream mailing lists, this
> won't be true in 4.5. *Upstream is already aware and working on the issue,
> but it falls under "new feature" so it won't be included in the 4.4.x line.
>
> For me, KDE 4.4 is the most broken KDE release since 4.1 (I didn't try
> 4.0). * I'd rather have 4.3.x in Squeeze than 4.4.

4.5 won't be ready on time, and it's almost impossible to go back to 4.3 (it
would require raising an epoch, do a really complicated transition, and lots,
lots, lots of work).

Debian packagers don't have that much time to spend on packaging (they are
volunteers after all), and hardly they can do decisions about which
particular branch is better. They have to package the last one which has been
released, unless has been released very soon and there is no time for
testing. Also, is specially hard to decide which branch is better, because
branch A can have application X in a great shape, and application Y in a bad
one, while in branch B the case might be the opposite. And having to go back
one whole release of the whole software compilation just because one app has
one annoying dependency is a little bit overkill, isn't it?

--
Alex (a.k.a. suy) | GPG ID 0x0B8B0BC2
http://barnacity.net/ | http://disperso.net


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Old 05-05-2010, 10:53 PM
Frederik Schwarzer
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. - Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 00:54:06]
> On Wednesday 05 May 2010 16:58:35 you wrote:
> > On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 04:21:15PM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 05 May 2010 15:24:49 Ana Guerrero wrote:
> > > > Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has
> > > > finally found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours.
> > > > Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next
> > > > point release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian
> > > > stable, Squeeze.
> > >
> > > Please don't force an "Akonadi-enabled" PIM suite on stable users before
> > > they are provided with an Akonadi that can use something other than
> > > MySQL.
> >
> > KDE 4.4 is the current stable release, there is not much more options here
> > with the freeze happening around the summer *before* 4.5 is out.
> > Good news is you have at least a couple of months to develop a patch for
> > this.
>
> Would Debian accept such a patch? Upstream will not apply it to the 4.4.x
> line.
>
> Upstream is already in the process of getting this done for the 4.5 release.
>
> What about shipping KDEPIM 4.3.x? It works fine with KDEBASE 4.4.x.
>
> Also, what happened to freezing when appropriate ("when it's done")? Stable
> users don't want a half-baked OS.
>
> Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable Debian that
> includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me.

How does having a kdepim that depends on mysql declare kde as "broken"?
Sure, many oppose to that dependency, but it works, doesn't it?

(at least here it does; better than the version from 4.3)

Regards


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Old 05-05-2010, 10:54 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Wednesday 05 May 2010 16:58:35 you wrote:
> On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 04:21:15PM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > On Wednesday 05 May 2010 15:24:49 Ana Guerrero wrote:
> > > Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has
> > > finally found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours.
> > > Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next
> > > point release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian
> > > stable, Squeeze.
> >
> > Please don't force an "Akonadi-enabled" PIM suite on stable users before
> > they are provided with an Akonadi that can use something other than
> > MySQL.
>
> KDE 4.4 is the current stable release, there is not much more options here
> with the freeze happening around the summer *before* 4.5 is out.
> Good news is you have at least a couple of months to develop a patch for
> this.

Would Debian accept such a patch? Upstream will not apply it to the 4.4.x
line.

Upstream is already in the process of getting this done for the 4.5 release.

What about shipping KDEPIM 4.3.x? It works fine with KDEBASE 4.4.x.

Also, what happened to freezing when appropriate ("when it's done")? Stable
users don't want a half-baked OS.

Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable Debian that
includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 05-05-2010, 10:58 PM
Modestas Vainius
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

Hello,

On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 01:54:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

> I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 since I
> have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I already run
> PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite installed.)

...

> Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable Debian that
> includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me.

How many users have postgres installed on their desktop? Do you complain just
because `ps aux | grep mysqld` returns something and you can't stand it or you
have any real issues with it?

--
Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
 
Old 05-05-2010, 11:13 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Wednesday 05 May 2010 17:58:09 Modestas Vainius wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 01:54:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 since I
> > have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I already run
> > PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite installed.)
>
> ...
>
> > Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable Debian that
> > includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me.
>
> How many users have postgres installed on their desktop? Do you complain
> just because `ps aux | grep mysqld` returns something and you can't stand
> it or you have any real issues with it?

I have real issues with having to spare the disk space and RAM on my laptop
for it. PostgreSQL is for work; I don't get much choice about running that.

I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with my data.
UPS or not. My email is fairly important for me -- I am probably in KMail
only slightly less than I am in a source code editor. When I'm testing or
deploying updates, I spend *more* time in KMail.

Yes. I agree. The kmail -> mysql-server dependency is not actually an "RC"
bug, for Debian.

It is for me, but I run an exotic mixed system anyway, so I'll figure
*something* out.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 05-05-2010, 11:13 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Wednesday 05 May 2010 17:07:16 Alejandro Exojo wrote:
> El Miércoles, 5 de Mayo de 2010, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. escribió:
> > In 4.3, this is not true. From what I hear on upstream mailing lists,
> > this won't be true in 4.5. Upstream is already aware and working on the
> > issue, but it falls under "new feature" so it won't be included in the
> > 4.4.x line.
> >
> > For me, KDE 4.4 is the most broken KDE release since 4.1 (I didn't try
> > 4.0). I'd rather have 4.3.x in Squeeze than 4.4.
>
> 4.5 won't be ready on time, and it's almost impossible to go back to 4.3
> (it would require raising an epoch, do a really complicated transition,
> and lots, lots, lots of work).
>
> Debian packagers don't have that much time to spend on packaging (they are
> volunteers after all), and hardly they can do decisions about which
> particular branch is better.
> They have to package the last one which has
> been released, unless has been released very soon and there is no time for
> testing.

Stable is going to be with those users for at least a year, probably more.
They deserve more than whatever upstream wants to throw at the wall this week.

> Also, is specially hard to decide which branch is better, because
> branch A can have application X in a great shape, and application Y in a
> bad one, while in branch B the case might be the opposite. And having to
> go back one whole release of the whole software compilation just because
> one app has one annoying dependency is a little bit overkill, isn't it?
>
Just block the KDEPIM 4.4 apps from migrating to testing. The KDEPIM 4.3
programs already work with the KDEBASE 4.4 libraries.

Heck, just stop *kmail* from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have
required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier.

These responses are quite frustrating. I read Ana's post as "please make sure
KDE 4.4 is ready for stable". My post was "KDE 4.4 is inappropriate for
stable". All the replies have been "too bad, we are going to release it
anyway".

/saddened
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 05-05-2010, 11:48 PM
Michael Schuerig
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Wednesday 05 May 2010, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> In 4.3, this is not true. From what I hear on upstream mailing
> lists, this won't be true in 4.5. Upstream is already aware and
> working on the issue, but it falls under "new feature" so it won't
> be included in the 4.4.x line.

Do you have a pointer to the discussion?

As far as the safety of your data is concerned, none of your emails are
stored in MySQL (yet). Mail storage is still in the file system, Akonadi
is only used for contacts.

That said, I'd be much happier myself without having to run yet another
database server on my machine. Right now there are "global" instances of
PostgreSQL and MySQL (personal and for work); on top of that, for each
logged-in user, Akonadi runs a private MySQL server as well as a
virtuoso server. Incidentally, virtuoso is a SQL database in its own
right, persumably fully capable of completing supplanting MySQL in this
case.

Michael

--
Michael Schuerig
mailto:michael@schuerig.de
http://www.schuerig.de/michael/


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