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Old 05-06-2010, 09:54 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Kevin Krammer:
> On Thursday, 2010-05-06, Sune Vuorela wrote:
> > On 2010-05-05, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <bss@iguanasuicide.net> wrote:
> > > I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with
> > > my data. = UPS or not.
> >
> > Then luckily you don't have to. The only data that mysql is *storing*
> > (as opposed to caching) is data it still haven't been able to sync
> > with the world.
>
> Additionally, I think it is possible to configure this version of
> Akonadi to work with a Postgres instance.

To me from my current impression of unreliability whether Akonadi is
available or not this seems to put another experiment on a stack of
experiments.

Sorry, but from my findings I believe that Akonadi is not yet ready for
prime time. As file indexing via Nepomuk.

I reported most issues upstream and I can only suggest for other Debian
users to do so as well. I don't think that Debian KDE developers have much
time to deal with upstream bugs. Granted some of the bugs could also be
packaging bugs, but I will ping back to Debian KDE developers should I get
hints at that.

Just sometimes I am fed up enough that I do not report a bug. Cause doing
a proper bug report takes quite some time.

I think I never reported that many KDE bugs than since KDE 4.

--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:59 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.:
> Heck, just stop kmail from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook
> have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier.

Again, AFAIK, kmail does not use Akonadi in KDE 4.4, it might in KDE 4.5.
Its KAddressBook that uses Akonadi by default now. No other component
actually really used Akonadi before.

At least that is what I know.

Actually when I see the problems with Akonadi in KDE 4.4, I'd rather not
ship a KMail from KDE 4.5.0 to end users if it uses Akonadi. I am also not
quite a fan of shipping a KDE installation with mixed versions, but IMHO
thats up for the Debian KDE developers to decide. I can understand when
they do not want to.

KAdressbook from KDE 4.3 is a completely different beast. It has been
rewritten for KDE 4.4. Thus if you use the one from KDE 4.3, yours will be
different from any other distro installed KDE. Unless another distribution
decides to do such a version mixture.

--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
 
Old 05-06-2010, 11:28 AM
Nate Bargmann
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

* On 2010 06 May 02:13 -0500, Diederik de Haas wrote:
> I don't get what you're trying to accomplish.
>
> On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail ->
> > Akonadi -> mysql-server).
>
> So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad.

Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become
very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has
me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to
other users due to the "my way or the highway" attitude I've encountered
since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues.

- Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

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Old 05-06-2010, 12:22 PM
Frederik Schwarzer
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

[Nate Bargmann - Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 13:28:23]
> * On 2010 06 May 02:13 -0500, Diederik de Haas wrote:
> > I don't get what you're trying to accomplish.
> >
> > On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > > In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail ->
> > > Akonadi -> mysql-server).
> >
> > So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad.
>
> Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become
> very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has
> me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to
> other users due to the "my way or the highway" attitude I've encountered
> since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues.

I certainly understand both sides here. The hardest break for KDE 4 was/is
probably the social provocation it induced.
For over a year, the developers that were working hard on getting things
fixed did hear a lot of "you are stupid", "you do not listen to users"
and "give me kicker back" comments. It's not just the developers to blame
if they do not have the patience to answer every "akonady sucks" comment
with proper reasoning.

Regards


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Old 05-06-2010, 01:05 PM
Nate Bargmann
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

* On 2010 06 May 07:27 -0500, Frederik Schwarzer wrote:
> [Nate Bargmann - Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 13:28:23]
> > * On 2010 06 May 02:13 -0500, Diederik de Haas wrote:
> > > I don't get what you're trying to accomplish.
> > >
> > > On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > > > In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail ->
> > > > Akonadi -> mysql-server).
> > >
> > > So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad.
> >
> > Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become
> > very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has
> > me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to
> > other users due to the "my way or the highway" attitude I've encountered
> > since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues.
>
> I certainly understand both sides here. The hardest break for KDE 4 was/is
> probably the social provocation it induced.
> For over a year, the developers that were working hard on getting things
> fixed did hear a lot of "you are stupid", "you do not listen to users"
> and "give me kicker back" comments. It's not just the developers to blame
> if they do not have the patience to answer every "akonady sucks" comment
> with proper reasoning.

During that time, I gave the devs the benefit of the doubt understanding
the new directions they were taking and buying the hype that things would
be improved. After a a year of use of KDE4, I disagree that much is
improved for *me*. I'm fine with the devs doing whatever they want with
the codebase--it's theirs after all--but when I as a simple user feel
left behind at the station then I must consider the alternatives.

It's not just the multitude of server processes that KDE4 seems to
insist on running, but the lost functionality. To wit, I participated
in an open bug on Konsole where the KDE4 version no longer generates the
PC speaker style beep. I understand that to many the beep is annoying
but I've heard it for so long that I now rely on it for efficient use of
the terminal. The dev's reply was essentially, "Too bad." Still, I'm
not alone in regretting this small loss of functionality. After all,
the code for the beep had to actively been removed in the newer versions
of Konsole but as a Konsole user, I was never asked in any way how this
decision would affect me. "Too bad."

Along the same lines, I cannot be convinced that Device Notifier is a
suitable replacement for the similar functionality in KDE 3.5. Other
tasks that I found easy in 3.5 are now cumbersome at best *for me* in
KDE4. Now that my system is poised to update to KDE 4.4, I think this
is where I'll get off the train and let KDE go where it wants and I
shall go elsewhere.

Thanks for the fish.

- Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html


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Old 05-06-2010, 01:33 PM
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

Nate Bargmann wrote:

> Now that my system is poised to update to KDE 4.4, I think this
> is where I'll get off the train and let KDE go where it wants and I
> shall go elsewhere.
>
> Thanks for the fish.
>
> - Nate >>

Free software is all about freedom:

- developers are free to assign their time to whatever they see fit
- other developers are free to fork code and use a given codebase
- users are free to use the code
- … or not.

You are free to choose whatever software fits you best. Your problem seems
that Debian won't ship KDE 3.5 because nobody (so far) is interesting in
doing the work. No ranting will change that (rather the opposite even).

I see two paths you can take :

* change DE and stop ranting
* contribute and change the situation

That's just IMHO.

Cheers,

OdyX



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Old 05-06-2010, 01:49 PM
Diederik de Haas
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On 2010-05-06 Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad.
>
> Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become
> very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has
> me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to
> other users due to the "my way or the highway" attitude I've encountered
> since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues.

Note: "too bad" are my words and I'm not a kde developer.

Following blog post by Aaron Seigo yielded all the usual responses:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.html


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Old 05-06-2010, 03:50 PM
Facundo Aguilera
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

El Miércoles 05 Mayo 2010 17:24:49 Ana Guerrero <ana@debian.org> escribió:
> Hi,
>
> Given no everybody reads planet Debian, here goes a copy of
> http://ekaia.org/blog/2010/05/05/kde-443-in-unstable/
>
>
> Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has finally
> found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours.
> Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next point
> release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian stable,
> Squeeze. What this means: go and update to 4.4.3, test, and when you find a
> bug, please, follow this instructions [0]. If you are lazy to read it:
> report upstream bugs at the KDE Bugzilla and report the
> packaging/integration bugs in the Debian BTS. When in doubt, you have the
> Debian KDE mailing list [1], that is being successful so far in
> maintaining a good signal-noise ratio.
>
> ...

Just for add a good comment, I'm testing 4.4.3 and it working very good!!
Thanks!!


The only problem I'm having is that kmail is not searching in the full address
list when writing a new message. But i can drag from kaddressbook for now...



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Old 05-06-2010, 03:59 PM
Facundo Aguilera
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

El Jueves 06 Mayo 2010 12:50:52 Facundo Aguilera <budinero@gmail.com>
escribió:
>
> Just for add a good comment, I'm testing 4.4.3 and it working very good!!
> Thanks!!
>
>
> The only problem I'm having is that kmail is not searching in the full
> address list when writing a new message. But i can drag from kaddressbook
> for now...


Solved, I just create again the akonadi resource in systemsettings... the old
setting was removed in the upgrade.


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Old 05-06-2010, 05:31 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Thursday 06 May 2010 04:49:08 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.:
> > On Wednesday 05 May 2010 17:58:09 Modestas Vainius wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 01:54:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
> > > wrote:
> > > > I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3
> > > > since I have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I
> > > > already run PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite
> > > > installed.)
>
> KMail doesn't use Akonadi at all in KDE 4.4. It might use Akonadi in KDE
> 4.5. The only thing using Akonadi by default in KDE 4.4 is the new
> KAddressBook. AFAIK.

Not true. I installed KMail from Sid earlier this week. It refused to send
mail by entering an infinite loop trying to connect to an Akonadi server that
I was not running.

KAddressBook and KOrganizer depend on Akonadi in KDE 4.3 and I believe they
also did so in KDE 4.2.
--
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bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
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