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Old 05-06-2010, 12:13 AM
Mike Bird
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Wed May 5 2010 15:53:05 Frederik Schwarzer wrote:
> How does having a kdepim that depends on mysql declare kde as "broken"?
> Sure, many oppose to that dependency, but it works, doesn't it?

(1) It reportedly breaks home directories stored on NFS servers.
(2) It's such a bad idea that KDE is rushing to remove it.
(3) Does Debian really want to implement robust migration both
to MySQL (for Squeeze) and then out of MySQL (for Squeeze+1)?

--Mike Bird

P.S. Any chance that Squeeze will support Trinity?


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Old 05-06-2010, 12:52 AM
Sune Vuorela
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On 2010-05-05, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <bss@iguanasuicide.net> wrote:
> I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with my data. =
> UPS or not.

Then luckily you don't have to. The only data that mysql is *storing*
(as opposed to caching) is data it still haven't been able to sync with
the world.

/Sune


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Old 05-06-2010, 02:52 AM
Sam Leon
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:


Also, what happened to freezing when appropriate ("when it's done")? Stable
users don't want a half-baked OS.


Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable Debian that
includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me.


I agree.

Sam


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Old 05-06-2010, 06:45 AM
Kevin Krammer
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Thursday, 2010-05-06, Sune Vuorela wrote:
> On 2010-05-05, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <bss@iguanasuicide.net> wrote:
> > I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with my
> > data. = UPS or not.
>
> Then luckily you don't have to. The only data that mysql is *storing*
> (as opposed to caching) is data it still haven't been able to sync with
> the world.

Additionally, I think it is possible to configure this version of Akonadi to
work with a Postgres instance.

Cheers,
Kevin
 
Old 05-06-2010, 06:49 AM
Kevin Krammer
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Thursday, 2010-05-06, Michael Schuerig wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 May 2010, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > In 4.3, this is not true. From what I hear on upstream mailing
> > lists, this won't be true in 4.5. Upstream is already aware and
> > working on the issue, but it falls under "new feature" so it won't
> > be included in the 4.4.x line.
>
> Do you have a pointer to the discussion?
>
> As far as the safety of your data is concerned, none of your emails are
> stored in MySQL (yet). Mail storage is still in the file system, Akonadi
> is only used for contacts.
>
> That said, I'd be much happier myself without having to run yet another
> database server on my machine. Right now there are "global" instances of
> PostgreSQL and MySQL (personal and for work); on top of that, for each
> logged-in user, Akonadi runs a private MySQL server as well as a
> virtuoso server. Incidentally, virtuoso is a SQL database in its own
> right, persumably fully capable of completing supplanting MySQL in this
> case.

Akonadi can be configure to use a global instance, the default is to run a
private one purely because the other option requires database admin
priviledges to set it up.

Virtuoso indeed looks like a solution to go forward with, unfortunately it
currently has some problems with the combination of ODBC and the respective
QSql driver.

Cheers,
Kevin
 
Old 05-06-2010, 06:52 AM
Adrian von Bidder
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Wednesday 05 May 2010 23.21:15 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail ->
> Akonadi -> mysql-server).

Note that mysql recently split their server package into a "server" and a
"core" package, so you get a minimal mysql installation without a system-
wide copy of mysql running.

Yes, akonadi will still use mysql internally, but it's (mostly) transparent
to the user. My main issue with the akonadi/mysql dependencies is thus
solved.

(Yes, it is not very cool to have mysql running for akonadi and virtuoso for
nepomuk/strigi and probably quite a few copies of libsqlite and libdb for
other subsystems. But I guess we'll just have to live with that unless
we're prepared to do the work ourselves... )

cheers
-- vbi

--
Forgive him, for he believes that the customs of his tribe are the laws
of nature!
-- G. B. Shaw
 
Old 05-06-2010, 07:13 AM
Diederik de Haas
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

I don't get what you're trying to accomplish.

On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail ->
> Akonadi -> mysql-server).

So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad. As can be read on many places, Akonadi is
there to stay. And as you mentioned in another post, the dependency to Akonadi has been in place for
a while now (Korganizer and KAddressBook since 4.2). So there's no way in hell you're going to have
(upstream) support for an Akonadi-less PIM.

Or don't you like the Akonadi dependency to mysql-server? Well, it's not the full mysqld package
anymore, but the dependency is to mysql-server-core(-5.1) (see #548419).
SQLite has been found inappropriate since it lacks proper transaction support.
PostgreSQL is apparently capable of providing the proper features and Tobias Koenig has made Akonadi
working with PostgreSQL since the end of last year (http://tokoe-kde.blogspot.com/2009/12/akonadi-
and-postgresql.html). That patch was committed to trunk at that time, but apparently didn't make
into SC 4.4 (?).
So if you want to use PostgreSQL, your best bet would be to port/base that patch on 4.4.

> Just block the KDEPIM 4.4 apps from migrating to testing. The KDEPIM 4.3
> programs already work with the KDEBASE 4.4 libraries.
>
> Heck, just stop kmail from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have
> required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier.

Yeah right, let's get a combination of 4.3 and 4.4 (and 4.2?) into stable, that surely must be
preferable. And good luck getting any upstream support for bugs resulting from that.

As Ana indicated the freeze won't wait for SC 4.5, so better make the best out of 4.4.
If you want the freeze to wait for 4.5, better try to convince the release team. Good luck.


Diederik


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Old 05-06-2010, 07:18 AM
Ana Guerrero
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 06:13:50PM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
>
> These responses are quite frustrating. I read Ana's post as "please make sure
> KDE 4.4 is ready for stable". My post was "KDE 4.4 is inappropriate for
> stable". All the replies have been "too bad, we are going to release it
> anyway".
>

No, you complain about something *specific* no the whole KDE 4.4, as I told
you, if you are able to develop a patch for it, there is plenty of time for
testing before freeze. Understand no everybody is annoyed about that.

Ana


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Old 05-06-2010, 09:44 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Mike Bird:
> On Wed May 5 2010 15:53:05 Frederik Schwarzer wrote:
> > How does having a kdepim that depends on mysql declare kde as
> > "broken"? Sure, many oppose to that dependency, but it works,
> > doesn't it?
>
> (1) It reportedly breaks home directories stored on NFS servers.
> (2) It's such a bad idea that KDE is rushing to remove it.
> (3) Does Debian really want to implement robust migration both
> to MySQL (for Squeeze) and then out of MySQL (for Squeeze+1)?

Whether Akonadi works or not appears to be a game of roulette to me.
Freshly since upgrading from KDE 4.4.3:

Bug 236535 - sometimes can't open and log timezone and privilege tables
https://bugs.kde.org/236535

Bug 236538 - often does not find resource agents on first start of Kontact
https://bugs.kde.org/236538

Bug 236539 - dbus session bus not available on first start of Kontact -
race condition?
https://bugs.kde.org/236539

I already grepped in ~/.local/share/contacts for contact information as
Akonadi was not available and I didn't now it would be there when I start
kontact again.

My address book as to be accessible *all of the time* without bombarding
me with more and less cryptic error messages. There are about 15 self
tests that might fail. I think Akonadi from KDE 4.4 depends on too many
external factors that it just can't control fully.

But nonetheless: I think these issues should be fixed upstream. And I also
don't what else Debian developers could do then to use KDEPIM from KDE 4.4
if the freeze will really happen this summer. Shipping KDEPIM 4.3 with KDE
4.4 might not be an option for Debian KDE developers, cause it abandoned
by upstream already and all security fixes needs to be backported. Sure
when KDE 4.5 is out the same happens to KDE 4.4, but at least it will
contain the security and other fixes upto then.

So either KDE project decides to fix any Akonadi related issues for KDE 4.4
series or Debian extends freeze. Other options would be: Shipping a KDE
4.5 backport or even Squeeze + 1 shortly afterwards.

Ciao,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:49 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default KDE 4.4.3 in unstable

Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.:
> On Wednesday 05 May 2010 17:58:09 Modestas Vainius wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 01:54:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
wrote:
> > > I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3
> > > since I have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I
> > > already run PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite
> > > installed.)
> >
> > ...
> >
> > > Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable
> > > Debian that includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me.
> >
> > How many users have postgres installed on their desktop? Do you
> > complain
> >
> > just because `ps aux | grep mysqld` returns something and you can't
> > stand it or you have any real issues with it?
>
> I have real issues with having to spare the disk space and RAM on my
> laptop for it. PostgreSQL is for work; I don't get much choice about
> running that.
>
> I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with my
> data. UPS or not. My email is fairly important for me -- I am
> probably in KMail only slightly less than I am in a source code
> editor. When I'm testing or deploying updates, I spend *more* time in
> KMail.

KMail doesn't use Akonadi at all in KDE 4.4. It might use Akonadi in KDE
4.5. The only thing using Akonadi by default in KDE 4.4 is the new
KAddressBook. AFAIK.

So KDE 4.5 might even be more problematic in the beginning. Especially
when I remember the roughnesses of KDE 4.3.0 and KDE 4.4.0 I do not
suggest to ship a .0 or even .1 release of KDE. Even KDE 4.4.2 had quite
some bugs that KDE 4.4.3 fixed.

So shipping KDE 4.4.3 or 4.4.4 oder 4.4.5 IMHO could well be a better
option that to ship KDE 4.5.0 with Debian Squeeze.

Sadly I have not seen any KDE 4.x.0 release yet thats really suitable for
Debian Stable.

Ciao,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
 

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