FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian KDE

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 12-12-2009, 08:55 PM
Matthew Moore
 
Default kde 4.3.4 is building for unstable now ;-) nvidia-installer Vs m-a

On Saturday December 12 2009 2:46:12 pm Manolete, ese artista wrote:
> El Sábado 12 Diciembre 2009 21:55:49 Valerio Passini escribió:
> > Generally, using nvdia-installer
> > when there is an upgrade/revision of the xorg packages, you always need
> > to run the nvidia-installer again.
>
> Isn't it the same in the Debian way? I don't use it since 3 years ago, I
> dont remember, to be honest... But I'm very aware that whenever a udgrade
> my kernel to a major release I have to reinstall my Nvidia driver as well,
> which is a "rompipalle" (balls-breaker or whatever they say, in English)
> thing, yes.

This was actually what make me start doing it the Debian Way. Using module-
assistant, it is only necessary to reinstall the driver when you upgrade your
kernel. Installing with module-assistant is as simple as

$ m-a update && m-a a-i nvidia

IMO this is no more work than running some script, and it also doesn't require
you to navigate to nvidia's website in order to download the latest version.

MM


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 12-12-2009, 09:56 PM
"Manolete, ese artista"
 
Default kde 4.3.4 is building for unstable now ;-) nvidia-installer Vs m-a

El Sábado 12 Diciembre 2009 22:55:25 Matthew Moore escribió:
> IMO this is no more work than running some script, and it also doesn't require
> you to navigate to nvidia's website in order to download the latest version.

Well, in fact all what I do is going to http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=122606, which is in my bookmarks -as it's a permanent post-, and click the latest stable driver link. Not much navigation really. And maybe it's possible to make it easier via wget and some script, I haven't even tried it just for saving two mouse clicks.

On the other hand, all the packages needed by module-assistant to function, as any other package installed, need to be upgraded frequently, so, more time and downloads required, not much, but more or less the same time it takes to download the way I've said.

Both ways seem to have advantages and its inconvenients, I just find less intrincate to download and execute than installing several dozens of MB for installing a simple driver.
If I had to install a lot of drivers with m-a I probably would do the same with mi gfx card's, but it's not the case, and since I don't see many benefits in m-a a-i I don't use it, that's all; I understand Valerio's point in case one needs several kernels, though, but, again, it's not my case, and I guess not other official driver users. There aren't probably many clear benefits for an option over the other one for the average user. Matter of needs and personal peferences, I suppose.

"God be with ye", everyone and have a great saturday night. ;-)


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 12-12-2009, 11:11 PM
Modestas Vainius
 
Default kde 4.3.4 is building for unstable now ;-) nvidia-installer Vs m-a

Hello,

On sekmadienis 13 Gruodis 2009 00:56:15 Manolete, ese artista wrote:
> El Sábado 12 Diciembre 2009 22:55:25 Matthew Moore escribió:
> > IMO this is no more work than running some script, and it also doesn't
> > require you to navigate to nvidia's website in order to download the
> > latest version.
>
> Well, in fact all what I do is going to
> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=122606, which is in my
> bookmarks -as it's a permanent post-, and click the latest stable driver
> link. Not much navigation really. And maybe it's possible to make it
> easier via wget and some script, I haven't even tried it just for saving
> two mouse clicks.
>
> On the other hand, all the packages needed by module-assistant to function,
> as any other package installed, need to be upgraded frequently, so, more
> time and downloads required, not much, but more or less the same time it
> takes to download the way I've said.
>
> Both ways seem to have advantages and its inconvenients, I just find less
> intrincate to download and execute than installing several dozens of MB
> for installing a simple driver. If I had to install a lot of drivers with
> m-a I probably would do the same with mi gfx card's, but it's not the
> case, and since I don't see many benefits in m-a a-i I don't use it,
> that's all; I understand Valerio's point in case one needs several
> kernels, though, but, again, it's not my case, and I guess not other
> official driver users. There aren't probably many clear benefits for an
> option over the other one for the average user. Matter of needs and
> personal peferences, I suppose.

Well, what you helps you is that you are experienced enough user to be able to
deal with all bad side effects of nvidia installer. It also helps that you
understand those side effects. Nvidia installer generally causes:

1) System pollution with libraries and other files some of which might not be
needed.

2) Overriding of system libraries that are managed by dpkg/apt. Therefore,
various X library upgrades keep breaking your X server resulting into
unbootable system (from a typical desktop user POV).

3) What makes things worse is that uninstaller does not uninstall everything
and might leave old garbage around which is hard to track.

In other words, nvidia installer should not be recommended for novice users
and those who don't know their system on low level. As little as I track
#debian , I've already had a "pleasure" to help users clean up system from the
mess caused by nvidia installer a couple of times. Believe me, it was not fun
for them AND for me.

--
Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
 
Old 12-13-2009, 08:18 PM
"Manolete, ese artista"
 
Default kde 4.3.4 is building for unstable now ;-) nvidia-installer Vs m-a

El Domingo 13 Diciembre 2009 01:11:53 Modestas Vainius escribió:

> Well, what you helps you is that you are experienced enough user to be able to
> deal with all bad side effects of nvidia installer.

No, not really a very experienced user, honestly.
What helps me is that Nvidia installer has never caused any problem on my machines nor has it taken from my scarce -and worth being spent in more interesting things- time more than a minute or two.
I would spend more time on dealing with m-a, GCC versions, xorg.conf & al. and praying to several gods from all over the world for m-a installing process to work -direct rendering included- at the first attempt, if I'd see a clear, doubtless remarkable, benefit, but honestly all those messes you mention, by the official installer... I only can say that I have not had any issue at all; and using the Debian way to install some, still closed, drivers doesn't even satisfy my sympathy for the Debianish "ideology", which might be a good reason, O.T.H.


> Nvidia installer generally causes:
>
> 1) System pollution with libraries and other files some of which might not be
> needed.

Like might not be needed Cups, Vim, Ed, and some other apps and libraries that are installeed by default, and I manually have to purge right after "netinstalling" my basic system (since I use Nano and don't even have a printer), or just put up with them in order to not breaking something. Not to talk about that "obesity inducer" habit that kernel hackers have including every driver on earth, in it.
What I mean with these examples is that I suppose some pollution is the price to pay if one wants a comfortable Linux system instead of compiling by hand or dealing with more "harsh", even if "KISS", distros. Less pollution as possible is always a good practice, yes, and some inevitable pollution doesn't mean we have to include even more, but from my Nvidia-problems-free experience, it's not worth the complication when after all, we aren't going to get a perfectly unpolluted system.


> I've already had a "pleasure" to help users clean up system from the
> mess caused by nvidia installer a couple of times. Believe me, it was not fun

I do believe you and all others who don't like Nvidia installer; I've never put into doubt your points; but, once again, I honestly just can say that the official installer has always worked perfectly and fast for me, I even remember being unable to make drivers a la Debian work correctly on one of my old machines, and ending up installing the official driver which worked perfectly, that's how I began to like it.
I also can't believe that all of those who use the official installer have experienced bad issues; if they have, obviously should switch to the Debian way inmediately. No, I think that most of Nvidia installer users just have an experience as good as mine.
Ironic enough, I have had more porblems in other computer with ATI free drivers and Xorg libraries a copule of months ago (cause identified thanks to your kind guidance, Modestas, by the way).


The official installer is an option more. All in all, we have not to forget that their drivers are still as closed as always, no matter which method we use to install them. A different subject would be if there were open and totally functional drivers, or Nvidia changes its policy, but it seems frogs will grow hair before that.

Bye.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 12-14-2009, 08:04 AM
Martin Steigerwald
 
Default kde 4.3.4 is building for unstable now ;-) nvidia-installer Vs m-a

Hi Manolete!

Am Sonntag 13 Dezember 2009 schrieb Manolete, ese artista:
> > I've already had a "pleasure" to help users clean up system from the
> > mess caused by nvidia installer a couple of times. Believe me, it was
> > not fun
>
> I do believe you and all others who don't like Nvidia installer; I've
> never put into doubt your points; but, once again, I honestly just can
> say that the official installer has always worked perfectly and fast
> for me, I even remember being unable to make drivers a la Debian work
> correctly on one of my old machines, and ending up installing the
> official driver which worked perfectly, that's how I began to like it.

I get the impression that you want to believe that the nvidia installer is
the better way for you to install nvidia drivers so *badly* that there is
no point in arguing anymore. All I can suggest is to at least try the
Debian way once again - after you didn't for three years. And if things
are still too complicated for you, consider writing an enhancement
request. But I really suggest that you open your mind for the
*possibility* that the debian way might fit your needs better than the
nvidia installer.

Just one more note:

The Debian way packages do not add that much when you compare it to the
usual build stuff that you need to build the nvidia driver anyway.

shambhala:~> apt-cache show nvidia-glx | grep Depends
Depends: nvidia-kernel-190.42, x11-common (>= 1:7.0.0), libc6 (>= 2.1.3),
libx11-6, libxext6

shambhala:~> apt-cache show nvidia-kernel-source | grep Depends
Depends: debhelper (>> 4.0.0), make, sed (>> 3.0), dpatch (>= 2.0.0)

shambhala:~> apt-cache show module-assistant | grep Depends
Depends: perl, libtext-wrapi18n-perl

shambhala:~> apt-cache show kernel-package | grep Depends
Depends: build-essential, make (>= 3.80-10), po-debconf, gettext, file,
debianutils (>= 2.30), binutils (>= 2.12), util-linux (>= 2.10o), module-
init-tools (>= 0.9.10)

I really love module-assistens, but now at least for the virtualbox-ose
package even DKMS is used in testing/unstable and lenny-backports, so that
the kernel module is autobuild on each upgrade. That might be a suggestion
for the NVidia team ;-).

Ciao,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 12:47 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright ©2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org