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Olivier Sallou 05-29-2012 11:59 AM

use of json.org in biojava3-ws
 
Hi,
biojava3 makes use of json.org library.
this library is not packaged in Debian. After a google, I saw old posts
saying that library is (was?) not compliant regarding its license [0].
Though, after a quick look on their web site I do not see any restriction.

Can anyone tell me is something wrong with their code for not being
packaged?



[0] http://www.json.org/license.html

Olivier

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Niels Thykier 05-29-2012 12:03 PM

use of json.org in biojava3-ws
 
On 2012-05-29 13:59, Olivier Sallou wrote:
> Hi,
> biojava3 makes use of json.org library.
> this library is not packaged in Debian. After a google, I saw old posts
> saying that library is (was?) not compliant regarding its license [0].
> Though, after a quick look on their web site I do not see any restriction.
>
> Can anyone tell me is something wrong with their code for not being
> packaged?
>
>
>
> [0] http://www.json.org/license.html
>
> Olivier
>

"""
The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.
"""

Fails DFSG#5 or DFSG#6.

Not to mention "evil" is not defined, so it makes it hard to figure out
whether "we are doing evil or not".

~Niels


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Andreas Tille 05-29-2012 12:17 PM

use of json.org in biojava3-ws
 
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 02:03:27PM +0200, Niels Thykier wrote:
> On 2012-05-29 13:59, Olivier Sallou wrote:
> > Hi,
> > biojava3 makes use of json.org library.
> > this library is not packaged in Debian. After a google, I saw old posts
> > saying that library is (was?) not compliant regarding its license [0].
> > Though, after a quick look on their web site I do not see any restriction.
> >
> > Can anyone tell me is something wrong with their code for not being
> > packaged?
> >
> >
> >
> > [0] http://www.json.org/license.html
> >
> > Olivier
> >
>
> """
> The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.
> """
>
> Fails DFSG#5 or DFSG#6.
>
> Not to mention "evil" is not defined, so it makes it hard to figure out
> whether "we are doing evil or not".

I'd call this an "over-picky" interpretation of something that rather
qualifies as a joke rather than a license which can be dealt with in
court (disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, just try to apply common sense.)

I'd like to answer this kind of joke at maximum by a comment in
debian/copyright and simply define that using Debian is per definition
not evil (which solves you second problem of a missing definition to
some extend.)

Did anybody discussed this at debian-legal or with ftpmaster?

Kind regards

Andreas.

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Mehdi Dogguy 05-29-2012 12:23 PM

use of json.org in biojava3-ws
 
On 29/05/12 14:17, Andreas Tille wrote:

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 02:03:27PM +0200, Niels Thykier wrote:

On 2012-05-29 13:59, Olivier Sallou wrote:

Hi, biojava3 makes use of json.org library. this library is not
packaged in Debian. After a google, I saw old posts saying that
library is (was?) not compliant regarding its license [0].
Though, after a quick look on their web site I do not see any
restriction.

Can anyone tell me is something wrong with their code for not
being packaged?



[0] http://www.json.org/license.html

Olivier



""" The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil. """

Fails DFSG#5 or DFSG#6.

Not to mention "evil" is not defined, so it makes it hard to
figure out whether "we are doing evil or not".


I'd call this an "over-picky" interpretation of something that rather
qualifies as a joke rather than a license which can be dealt with in
court (disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, just try to apply common
sense.)



FWIW, FTP-masters already rejected packages because their license had
the "to be used for good, not evil" bit. So there is at least one side
that it is not taking it as a joke. Upstream should remove that clause
to comply with the DFSG terms.

Kind Regards,

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Paul Wise 05-29-2012 12:31 PM

use of json.org in biojava3-ws
 
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Andreas Tille wrote:

> I'd call this an "over-picky" interpretation of something that rather
> qualifies as a joke rather than a license which can be dealt with in
> court (disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, just try to apply common sense.)
>
> I'd like to answer this kind of joke at maximum by a comment in
> debian/copyright and simply define that using Debian is per definition
> not evil (which solves you second problem of a missing definition to
> some extend.)
>
> Did anybody discussed this at debian-legal or with ftpmaster?

This license pops up on debian-legal quite a bit over the years, in
every case the debian-legal participants agreed it is non-free.

Google consider it non-free enough to reject it from Google Code.

The definition of "evil" is subjective and could refer to anything,
including the production of Debian itself.

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Andreas Tille 05-29-2012 01:28 PM

use of json.org in biojava3-ws
 
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 08:31:46PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
>
> The definition of "evil" is subjective and could refer to anything,
> including the production of Debian itself.

Sure and a statement like the given one is pure non-sense without any
definition and its just a matter if you care about non-sense or not.
The short summary seems to be: We need to contact the authors and I hope
somebody will be willing to take his time on it.

Kind regards

Andreas.

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Paul Wise 05-29-2012 01:46 PM

use of json.org in biojava3-ws
 
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Andreas Tille wrote:
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 08:31:46PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
>>
>> The definition of "evil" is subjective and could refer to anything,
>> including the production of Debian itself.
>
> Sure and a statement like the given one is pure non-sense without any
> definition and its just a matter if you care about non-sense or not.

There is definitive proof that Debian is evil:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/06/msg02206.html

> The short summary seems to be: We need to contact the authors and I hope
> somebody will be willing to take his time on it.

Indeed.

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Niels Thykier 05-29-2012 02:25 PM

use of json.org in biojava3-ws
 
On 2012-05-29 15:46, Paul Wise wrote:
> [...]
>
>> The short summary seems to be: We need to contact the authors and I hope
>> somebody will be willing to take his time on it.
>
> Indeed.

Most likely, that would be a waste of time[1]

~Niels

[1]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201007.mbox/%3CAANLkTil5NX3SGgOaf_dXdeqtnMvEONXzzi-4iRDkt53u@mail.gmail.com%3E


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Andreas Tille 05-29-2012 02:44 PM

use of json.org in biojava3-ws
 
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 04:25:51PM +0200, Niels Thykier wrote:
> On 2012-05-29 15:46, Paul Wise wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >> The short summary seems to be: We need to contact the authors and I hope
> >> somebody will be willing to take his time on it.
> >
> > Indeed.
>
> Most likely, that would be a waste of time[1]
>
> ~Niels
>
> [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201007.mbox/%3CAANLkTil5NX3SGgOaf_dXdeqtnMvEONXzzi-4iRDkt53u@mail.gmail.com%3E

Anyway somebody should tell this guy that wasting time of developers by
inventing broken non-free license statements is evil and he should not
do this.

When reading the mail exchange above there seems to be another
(non-evil-licensed) implementation:

http://markmail.org/message/uamddsvofxnnxxhi

Would this help in the biojava3 case?

Kind regards

Andreas.

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Olivier Sallou 05-29-2012 02:48 PM

use of json.org in biojava3-ws
 
Le 5/29/12 4:44 PM, Andreas Tille a crit :
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 04:25:51PM +0200, Niels Thykier wrote:
>> On 2012-05-29 15:46, Paul Wise wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> The short summary seems to be: We need to contact the authors and I hope
>>>> somebody will be willing to take his time on it.
>>> Indeed.
>> Most likely, that would be a waste of time[1]
>>
>> ~Niels
>>
>> [1]
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201007.mbox/%3CAANLkTil5NX3SGgOaf_dXdeqtnMvEONXzzi-4iRDkt53u@mail.gmail.com%3E
I've already seen this library, but it is not a compatible API.
I gonna ask to biojava team if they would go to using such library
instead of org.json one....

Olivier
> Anyway somebody should tell this guy that wasting time of developers by
> inventing broken non-free license statements is evil and he should not
> do this.
>
> When reading the mail exchange above there seems to be another
> (non-evil-licensed) implementation:
>
> http://markmail.org/message/uamddsvofxnnxxhi
>
> Would this help in the biojava3 case?
>
> Kind regards
>
> Andreas.
>

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Tel: 02.99.84.71.95

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