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Old 05-05-2010, 08:46 PM
Torsten Werner
 
Default implementing sensible-java to improve the alternative system

Hi,

I have an idea about implementing sensible-tools for the java world
and wrote them down at <http://wiki.debian.org/Java/SensibleJava>. I
have already implemented a proof of concept. What do you think about
it? Does it make sense at all? Is the prefix "sensible-" a good/bad
idea?

Thanks,
Torsten


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Old 05-06-2010, 11:56 AM
Matthias Klose
 
Default implementing sensible-java to improve the alternative system

On 05.05.2010 22:46, Torsten Werner wrote:

Hi,

I have an idea about implementing sensible-tools for the java world
and wrote them down at<http://wiki.debian.org/Java/SensibleJava>. I
have already implemented a proof of concept. What do you think about
it? Does it make sense at all? Is the prefix "sensible-" a good/bad
idea?


improving the current alternative-based system is needed, but you only replace
one inflexible system with another one.


- no choice of a specific VM
- no choice of compiled or interpreted mode

While the java world seems to be most ix86 centric, IMO a distribution should
try to support java on all it's supported architectures. This might include
working around jvm issues on specific architectures.


What does the name 'sun' mean? A vm, a jdk, anything else? If it's a VM, it
better should be something like hotspot, zero, zeroasm, or shark.


Matthias


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Old 05-06-2010, 02:00 PM
Torsten Werner
 
Default implementing sensible-java to improve the alternative system

Hi Matthias,


let me answer in a different order.

> What does the name 'sun' mean? A vm, a jdk, anything else? If it's a VM, it better should be something like hotspot, zero, zeroasm, or shark.

It is currently inspired by java-wrappers but need not be identical to
java-wrappers. I am open for suggestions. Java-wrappers defines sun as

# all sun runtimes
__jvm_sun="$__jvm_sun4 $__jvm_sun5 $__jvm_sun6"
# Sun runtimes
__jvm_sun4="/usr/lib/j2*1.4-sun"
__jvm_sun5="/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-sun /usr/lib/j2*1.5-sun"
__jvm_sun6="/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-sun /usr/lib/j2*1.6-sun"
# Sun version at least 5:
__jvm_sunmin5="$__jvm_sun5 $__jvm_sun6"

> improving the current alternative-based system is needed, but you only replace one inflexible system with another one.

That is intended somehow. Java-common should not be updated too often
and that is why the flavor mapping is based on directory names that do
not change often.

> - no choice of a specific VM
> - no choice of compiled or interpreted mode

Is the information easily available in the JDKs?

> While the java world seems to be most ix86 centric, IMO a distribution
> should try to support java on all it's supported architectures. This
> might include working around jvm issues on specific architectures.

May you add a use case to the Wiki page
<http://wiki.debian.org/Java/SensibleJava>? That would make it easier to
understand your issue.

Cheers,
Torsten


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Old 05-08-2010, 04:20 PM
Matthias Klose
 
Default implementing sensible-java to improve the alternative system

On 06.05.2010 16:00, Torsten Werner wrote:

Hi Matthias,

improving the current alternative-based system is needed, but you only replace one inflexible system with another one.


That is intended somehow. Java-common should not be updated too often
and that is why the flavor mapping is based on directory names that do
not change often.


then sensible-* seems a waste of resources. maybe you could come up with a
rationale first, what you do want to achieve?



- no choice of a specific VM
- no choice of compiled or interpreted mode


Is the information easily available in the JDKs?


afaik, no. it's VM information. -X and -XX options depend on a specific VM.


While the java world seems to be most ix86 centric, IMO a distribution
should try to support java on all it's supported architectures. This
might include working around jvm issues on specific architectures.


May you add a use case to the Wiki page
<http://wiki.debian.org/Java/SensibleJava>? That would make it easier to
understand your issue.


well, the use case is selection of a VM (might be another path, or just another
option), selection of VM specific flags (-XX, Xint, -Xcomp, ...) depending on
architecture and application. Compare that with working around compiler bugs for
some architectures with setting CFLAGS in the rules file, and using workarounds
for architecture specific problems in the JIT (hotspot, shark).


Matthias


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Old 05-08-2010, 05:02 PM
Torsten Werner
 
Default implementing sensible-java to improve the alternative system

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> wrote:
> then sensible-* seems a waste of resources. maybe you could come up with a
> rationale first, what you do want to achieve?

Have you read the wiki page?

"All java related tools such as java, javac, javadoc are symlinks are
handled by the alternatives system. Neither the non-privileged user
nor the Debian packager can easily override which JVM should be used."

That is similar to sensible-browser, sensible-editor, or
sensible-pager. As one extra goodie it allows setting up the CLASSPATH
in a more comfortable way.

> afaik, no. it's VM information. -X and -XX options depend on a specific VM.

The existing sensible commands don't have any knowledge about specific
tools, e.g. ensible-editor does not support any options that are
specific to emacs, vim, ed, mcedit, ...

> well, the use case is selection of a VM (might be another path, or just
> another option), selection of VM specific flags (-XX, Xint, -Xcomp, ...)
> depending on architecture and application. Compare that with working around
> compiler bugs for some architectures with setting CFLAGS in the rules file,
> and using workarounds for architecture specific problems in the JIT
> (hotspot, shark).

Are there any options that are common for all types and versions of
JVMs on all architectures? Even if the JVM has been installed locally
instead of using a Debian package?

Cheers,
Torsten


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