FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian Java

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 02-20-2010, 02:37 PM
Torsten Werner
 
Default Recommends relation of libxxx-java-gcj packages

Hi,


we've got the following comment in bug #559058 from doko:

"it's current practice/policy to have such a recommendation for the
corresponding -gcj package. if you want to have this changed, please
address this on the debian-java ML, and don't change it on a per
package basis."

I cannot find any reference that the gcj packages should be
recommended. Most packages are currently recommended but not all. The
Debian policy states:

"`Recommends'
This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency.

The `Recommends' field should list packages that would be found
together with this one in all but unusual installations."

I think most installations don't need those -gcj packages and
therefore the recommends should be downgraded to suggests. What do you
think?


Cheers,
Torsten


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-java-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: a90bfcf1002200737l328c1fb5p9717d404d858d9b0@mail.g mail.com">http://lists.debian.org/a90bfcf1002200737l328c1fb5p9717d404d858d9b0@mail.g mail.com
 
Old 02-20-2010, 03:04 PM
Vincent Fourmond
 
Default Recommends relation of libxxx-java-gcj packages

Torsten Werner wrote:
> we've got the following comment in bug #559058 from doko:
>
> "it's current practice/policy to have such a recommendation for the
> corresponding -gcj package. if you want to have this changed, please
> address this on the debian-java ML, and don't change it on a per
> package basis."
>
> I cannot find any reference that the gcj packages should be
> recommended. Most packages are currently recommended but not all. The
> Debian policy states:
>
> "`Recommends'
> This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency.
>
> The `Recommends' field should list packages that would be found
> together with this one in all but unusual installations."
>
> I think most installations don't need those -gcj packages and
> therefore the recommends should be downgraded to suggests. What do you
> think?

I think along the same lines as you do. I manually remove most -gcj
packages.

Vincent

--
Vincent Fourmond, Debian Developer
http://vince-debian.blogspot.com/

Some pirates achieved immortality by great deeds of cruelty
and derring-do. Some achieved immortality by amassing great
wealth. But the captain had long ago decided that he would,
on the whole, prefer to achieve immortality by not dying.
-- Terry Pratchet, the Colour of Magic

Vincent, not listening to anything for now


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-java-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 4B800817.2090408@debian.org">http://lists.debian.org/4B800817.2090408@debian.org
 
Old 02-20-2010, 04:44 PM
Niels Thykier
 
Default Recommends relation of libxxx-java-gcj packages

~Niels
 
Old 02-20-2010, 04:48 PM
Niels Thykier
 
Default Recommends relation of libxxx-java-gcj packages

Okay... I will try that once more

What I was trying to write (other than my name) was that I support the
downgrade of Recommends to Suggests.

~Niels
 
Old 02-20-2010, 07:04 PM
Ludovic Claude
 
Default Recommends relation of libxxx-java-gcj packages

I never use gcj packages, I'm always unsure whether they will work
because dynamic class loading is used more and more in Java, and OpenJDK
is nowadays fast enough at startup to be convenient for command line
useage. So yes, I support the downgrade from Recommends gcj packages to
Suggests.

Ludovic

Niels Thykier a écrit :
> Okay... I will try that once more
>
> What I was trying to write (other than my name) was that I support the
> downgrade of Recommends to Suggests.
>
> ~Niels
>
>
>


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-java-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 4B80404B.5080300@laposte.net">http://lists.debian.org/4B80404B.5080300@laposte.net
 
Old 02-21-2010, 04:40 AM
Onkar Shinde
 
Default Recommends relation of libxxx-java-gcj packages

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 1:34 AM, Ludovic Claude
<ludovic.claude54@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I never use gcj packages, I'm always unsure whether they will work
> because dynamic class loading is used more and more in Java, and OpenJDK
> is nowadays fast enough at startup to be convenient for command line
> useage. So yes, I support the downgrade from Recommends gcj packages to
> Suggests.

IIRC, I had a discussion about same topic with doko sometime back.
doko had mentioned that -gcj packages offer performance improvements
on architectures where JIT compiler is not present in JRE.
Considering that OpenJDK (which has JIT) is available on most
architecture these days I also support moving -gcj packages to
'Suggests'.


Onkar


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-java-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: c9c316091002202140m6c855c22iab564c15766ba60e@mail. gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/c9c316091002202140m6c855c22iab564c15766ba60e@mail. gmail.com
 
Old 02-21-2010, 09:08 AM
Torsten Werner
 
Default Recommends relation of libxxx-java-gcj packages

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Onkar Shinde <onkarshinde@gmail.com> wrote:
> doko had mentioned that -gcj packages offer performance improvements
> on architectures where JIT compiler is not present in JRE.

But nobody is doing Java development today on architectures without a
JIT compiler. The buildds aren't affected because they are installing
neither Suggests nor Recommends.

> Considering that OpenJDK (which has JIT) is available on most
> architecture these days I also support moving -gcj packages to
> 'Suggests'.

Counting the votes from the list and the bug reports: 7 votes for
Suggests and 1 vote for Recommends.

I think we SHOULD have a package relation of 'Suggests' but we MAY use
'Recommends' for individual packages if there are good reasons.
(SHOULD and MAY as in RFC 2119)

BTW, there are some packages without a relation. They should be fixed.


Cheers,
Torsten


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-java-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: a90bfcf1002210208l13f0691eied54debc54c640aa@mail.g mail.com">http://lists.debian.org/a90bfcf1002210208l13f0691eied54debc54c640aa@mail.g mail.com
 
Old 02-23-2010, 02:54 PM
Onkar Shinde
 
Default Recommends relation of libxxx-java-gcj packages

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Torsten Werner
<mail.twerner@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Onkar Shinde <onkarshinde@gmail.com> wrote:
>> doko had mentioned that -gcj packages offer performance improvements
>> on architectures where JIT compiler is not present in JRE.
>
> But nobody is doing Java development today on architectures without a
> JIT compiler. The buildds aren't affected because they are installing
> neither Suggests nor Recommends.
>
>> Considering that OpenJDK (which has JIT) is available on most
>> architecture these days I also support moving -gcj packages to
>> 'Suggests'.
>
> Counting the votes from the list and the bug reports: 7 votes for
> Suggests and 1 vote for Recommends.
>
> I think we SHOULD have a package relation of 'Suggests' but we MAY use
> 'Recommends' for individual packages if there are good reasons.
> (SHOULD and MAY as in RFC 2119)
>
> BTW, there are some packages without a relation. They should be fixed.

I was wondering if this needs to be added somewhere in documentation
(wiki or policy) or is it ok to go ahead and do the changes to
packages.


Onkar


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-java-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: c9c316091002230754s504f8eaana973b0fb537fcea@mail.g mail.com">http://lists.debian.org/c9c316091002230754s504f8eaana973b0fb537fcea@mail.g mail.com
 
Old 02-23-2010, 09:57 PM
Torsten Werner
 
Default Recommends relation of libxxx-java-gcj packages

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Onkar Shinde <onkarshinde@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was wondering if this needs to be added somewhere in documentation
> (wiki or policy) or is it ok to go ahead and do the changes to
> packages.

yes

Cheers,
Torsten


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-java-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: a90bfcf1002231457k2cf4723fya959a184aa1fb11b@mail.g mail.com">http://lists.debian.org/a90bfcf1002231457k2cf4723fya959a184aa1fb11b@mail.g mail.com
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 02:57 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright ©2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org