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Old 05-16-2011, 06:24 AM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default NIC 1000Base-SX needed

Hi Network Experts,

I have to test a real bunch of servers, but unfortunately the Switches
are equiped with 1000Base-SX (Singel Fiber) ports.

Can someone recommend me a PCI/PCI-X Network Adapter 1000Base-TX which I
can get inexpensive from eBay :-/ please?

On eBay I have only found the 1000Base-SX with two fiber lines.

Oh, all switches are 3Com 4400SE 3c17206 with 1000Base-SX Module 3c17221
or 3Com 4924 3C17701 24port with 3c17710

Unfortunately I was not able to get the 3c17220 or 3c17711 where both
are 1000Base-T.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening/Week
Michelle Konzack

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Old 05-16-2011, 10:42 AM
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
 
Default NIC 1000Base-SX needed

On Mon, 16 May 2011, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> I have to test a real bunch of servers, but unfortunately the Switches
> are equiped with 1000Base-SX (Singel Fiber) ports.

1000Base-SX is almost always connected through a pair of MM (multi-mode)
fibers, one for TX, one for RX. Dual-cords have both fibers in the same
"cable", but there will be two fibers.

I've never seen anyone bother with CWDM (dual-color: TX and RX in the same
fiber) in 1000Base-SX, but it is possible. And probably a waste of money,
as the CWDM optics are expensive when compared with small fiber cable runs
and will require SFP slots.

Don't use 1000Base-SX over single-mode fiber. *Really*.

> Can someone recommend me a PCI/PCI-X Network Adapter 1000Base-TX which I
> can get inexpensive from eBay :-/ please?

Get a 1000-Base-SX NIC, not a TX one. Otherwise, how will you connect it to
the switch? Don't use SX-TX adaptors, they're crap and break easily.

SFP-based NICs will likely be far more expensive when you add the SFP optics
(but much better maintenance-wise, as you just need to replace the optics
when they burn out after 3-6 years of service).

I *heavily* recommend that you find a NIC based on the Intel 82576,
*especially* if any virtual machines are involved and the box they will be
running on is not old crap (i.e. it has MSI-X and SRIOV-capable PCIe
bridges).

You really should have bought something else that had 1000-TX ports, though.
MM cabling is annoying, needs to be seated correctly and requires fiber
management accessories in the rack and careful handling if you don't want it
to degrade and start giving you link layer problems later on. And you'll
pay easily twice *per link* when compared to a CAT6 one because you will
also need optics in the NICs.

Next time, get an Extreme, Juniper, Cisco, Enterasys, Force10 or other good
L2/L3 1000BaseTX switch should you not find your preferred HP/3COM switches
(which are just average stuff anyway). IMHO, one would do better to spend
extra $$$ in a switch with much better functionality and support, than sink
it in opticial cabling and NICs that were not required in the first place.

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh


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Old 05-16-2011, 02:12 PM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default NIC 1000Base-SX needed

Hello Henrique,

Am 2011-05-16 07:42:04, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
> On Mon, 16 May 2011, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > I have to test a real bunch of servers, but unfortunately the Switches
> > are equiped with 1000Base-SX (Singel Fiber) ports.
>
> 1000Base-SX is almost always connected through a pair of MM (multi-mode)
> fibers, one for TX, one for RX. Dual-cords have both fibers in the same
> "cable", but there will be two fibers.

Hmm, on the back of the switches I have only one hole in the Module.

But the NICs I habe seen have two and the SX-Connecor is doule-sized

So, I am little bit puzzeling here...

> I've never seen anyone bother with CWDM (dual-color: TX and RX in the same
> fiber) in 1000Base-SX, but it is possible.

OK, it seem to be CWDM.

> Don't use 1000Base-SX over single-mode fiber. *Really*.

The problem with the Equipment is that in January I have gotten four
19/42U rackmounts with 130 IBM eServer x335 where each unit has a 3Com
Switch 4400 (it is a 10/100 Mbit Switch) with a 1000Base-SX Module
connected to a CISCO 7600 which I do not want to use for this test
configuration

I like to use one if my x345 ar Linux-Router and looking for supported
NICs to connect the Switches directly to the x345.

> > Can someone recommend me a PCI/PCI-X Network Adapter 1000Base-TX which I
> > can get inexpensive from eBay :-/ please?
>
> Get a 1000-Base-SX NIC, not a TX one. Otherwise, how will you connect it to
> the switch? Don't use SX-TX adaptors, they're crap and break easily.

Oops... I mean SX...

I have tried to get the 1000Base-T Modules for the switches which would
solv ANY problems (the Server has already one 4 port Intel PRO 1000...),
but the 1000Base-T Modules are quiet expensive even on eBay...


> SFP-based NICs will likely be far more expensive when you add the SFP optics
> (but much better maintenance-wise, as you just need to replace the optics
> when they burn out after 3-6 years of service).

I need currently only an inexpensive solution and connecting the router
to one of the 100Base-TX Ports is no option because I need for testing
at least 1 Gbit (my 4924 24port Gbit Switch runns fast as the heaven)

> I *heavily* recommend that you find a NIC based on the Intel 82576,
> *especially* if any virtual machines are involved and the box they will be
> running on is not old crap (i.e. it has MSI-X and SRIOV-capable PCIe
> bridges).

Ehm, you mean the Intel Pro 1000/something?

I have them in 1000Base-T with 1, 2 and 4 ports, and seen onle this one
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150427582122

which is not a CWDM card. Same for the Broadcom NetXtreme II.

> You really should have bought something else that had 1000-TX ports, though.

I know, but the Switches where already in the Racks...

> Next time, get an Extreme, Juniper, Cisco, Enterasys, Force10 or other good
> L2/L3 1000BaseTX switch should you not find your preferred HP/3COM switches
> (which are just average stuff anyway). IMHO, one would do better to spend
> extra $$$ in a switch with much better functionality and support, than sink
> it in opticial cabling and NICs that were not required in the first place.

My previously bought (new) 3Com 3C17701 (4924) has 24 ports 10/100/1000
plus a 4port 1000Base-T module are working perfectly but currently I do
not like to buy something which is not realy neccesary...

If the test are working fine, the Final installation will have only GBit
Switches, but for now it is not realy neccesary.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack

--
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ######################
Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux

itsystems@tdnet France EURL itsystems@tdnet UG (limited liability)
Owner Michelle Konzack Owner Michelle Konzack

Apt. 917 (homeoffice)
50, rue de Soultz Kinzigstraße 17
67100 Strasbourg/France 77694 Kehl/Germany
Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil
Tel: +49-176-86004575 office

<http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://www.flexray4linux.org/>
<http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://www.can4linux.org/>

Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de
ICQ #328449886

Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
 
Old 05-16-2011, 02:37 PM
Marc Haber
 
Default NIC 1000Base-SX needed

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 04:12:17PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Am 2011-05-16 07:42:04, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
> > On Mon, 16 May 2011, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > > I have to test a real bunch of servers, but unfortunately the Switches
> > > are equiped with 1000Base-SX (Singel Fiber) ports.
> >
> > 1000Base-SX is almost always connected through a pair of MM (multi-mode)
> > fibers, one for TX, one for RX. Dual-cords have both fibers in the same
> > "cable", but there will be two fibers.
>
> Hmm, on the back of the switches I have only one hole in the Module.

Then it ain't 1000Base-SX. Picpaste one, please.

> But the NICs I habe seen have two and the SX-Connecor is doule-sized

That's the normal way to implement Gigabit over Fiber.

Greetings
Marc

--
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Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
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Old 05-16-2011, 02:57 PM
Andrew Miehs
 
Default NIC 1000Base-SX needed

On 16/05/2011, at 8:24 AM, Michelle Konzack wrote:
>
> I have to test a real bunch of servers, but unfortunately the Switches
> are equiped with 1000Base-SX (Singel Fiber) ports.

> Oh, all switches are 3Com 4400SE 3c17206 with 1000Base-SX Module 3c17221
> or 3Com 4924 3C17701 24port with 3c17710
>
> Unfortunately I was not able to get the 3c17220 or 3c17711 where both
> are 1000Base-T.


Stupid question, why don't you just use the front ports on the 3Com 4924?
It should have 24x 10/100/1000 TX ports according to Google - and just ignore the SX ports on the back of the switch?
BTW - it looked like the switch uses "LC" connectors.

Regards

Andrew

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Old 05-16-2011, 03:11 PM
Sven Hartge
 
Default NIC 1000Base-SX needed

Marc Haber <mh+debian-isp@zugschlus.de> wrote:
> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 04:12:17PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
>> Am 2011-05-16 07:42:04, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
>>> On Mon, 16 May 2011, Michelle Konzack wrote:

>>>> I have to test a real bunch of servers, but unfortunately the
>>>> Switches are equiped with 1000Base-SX (Singel Fiber) ports.

>>> 1000Base-SX is almost always connected through a pair of MM
>>> (multi-mode) fibers, one for TX, one for RX. Dual-cords have both
>>> fibers in the same "cable", but there will be two fibers.
>>
>> Hmm, on the back of the switches I have only one hole in the Module.

> Then it ain't 1000Base-SX. Picpaste one, please.

I guess, this would be MTRJ then. Was very popular the time 3com 49xx
where introduced. About 10 years ago.



--
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.


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Old 05-16-2011, 03:31 PM
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
 
Default NIC 1000Base-SX needed

On Mon, 16 May 2011, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > I've never seen anyone bother with CWDM (dual-color: TX and RX in the same
> > fiber) in 1000Base-SX, but it is possible.
>
> OK, it seem to be CWDM.

What is the connector? You should never assume something is CWDM, a CWDM
link (two sets of optics, one type A, the other type B) costs nearly 3x a
normal solution with two sets of the same normal optics, and requires you to
keep track of who needs type A, and who needs type B.

It is never used 'in a whim' by anyone, least of all 3COM. That's why it is
so rare for 1000Base-SX.

My guess is that you have MTRJ or something else like that, which looks like
a single connector, but it has two optical paths.

> > Don't use 1000Base-SX over single-mode fiber. *Really*.
>
> The problem with the Equipment is that in January I have gotten four
> 19/42U rackmounts with 130 IBM eServer x335 where each unit has a 3Com
> Switch 4400 (it is a 10/100 Mbit Switch) with a 1000Base-SX Module
> connected to a CISCO 7600 which I do not want to use for this test
> configuration

Then get MM fiber. Don't use SX over single-mode fiber. Not only you'll
need mode-conditioning patch cords which are *expensive*, it is a very bad
idea and will not always work well.

> I have tried to get the 1000Base-T Modules for the switches which would
> solv ANY problems (the Server has already one 4 port Intel PRO 1000...),
> but the 1000Base-T Modules are quiet expensive even on eBay...

SFP modules are always somewhat expensive, unless they're crap, or used (and
then you risk them being near their end-of-life).

> > I *heavily* recommend that you find a NIC based on the Intel 82576,
> > *especially* if any virtual machines are involved and the box they will be
> > running on is not old crap (i.e. it has MSI-X and SRIOV-capable PCIe
> > bridges).
>
> Ehm, you mean the Intel Pro 1000/something?

No. I mean an Intel Gigabit EF NIC. i82576 chipset, with two 1000Base-SX
ports using LC connectors. Each LC port has TWO connectors, one for TX, one
for RX. Should be used with good quality MM fiber.

http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/prodbrief/320116.pdf
http://www.intel.com/Products/Server/Adapters/Gb-EF-Dual-Port/Gb-EF-Dual-Port-overview.htm

The Intel PRO/1000 can't handle nearly as much traffic (and PPS) as the
newer NICs, as they won't scale to more cores nearly as well. And SR-IOV
does wonders when you have VMs and a box that can support it.

If you don't care much about NIC/VM performance, I suppose the MF NIC you
found would do the job just fine, though.

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh


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Old 05-16-2011, 04:04 PM
Sven Hartge
 
Default NIC 1000Base-SX needed

Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2011, Michelle Konzack wrote:

>>> I've never seen anyone bother with CWDM (dual-color: TX and RX in
>>> the same fiber) in 1000Base-SX, but it is possible.

>> OK, it seem to be CWDM.

> What is the connector? You should never assume something is CWDM, a
> CWDM link (two sets of optics, one type A, the other type B) costs
> nearly 3x a normal solution with two sets of the same normal optics,
> and requires you to keep track of who needs type A, and who needs type
> B.

> It is never used 'in a whim' by anyone, least of all 3COM. That's why
> it is so rare for 1000Base-SX.

> My guess is that you have MTRJ or something else like that, which
> looks like a single connector, but it has two optical paths.

It _is_ MTRJ. I just went to our stack of decommissioned 49xx here and
compared the part number Michelle gave for the addon module.

Quite common 10 years back, but mostly out of use today.



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Old 05-16-2011, 05:28 PM
Bjørn Mork
 
Default NIC 1000Base-SX needed

Michelle Konzack <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> writes:

>> You really should have bought something else that had 1000-TX ports, though.
>
> I know, but the Switches where already in the Racks...

It's probably both cheaper and easier to replace the switches with
something modern than getting 1000BaseSX cards for the servers.

Just my .02€


Bjørn



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Old 05-16-2011, 06:19 PM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default NIC 1000Base-SX needed

Hello Sven Hartge,

Am 2011-05-16 18:04:19, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
> It _is_ MTRJ. I just went to our stack of decommissioned 49xx here and
> compared the part number Michelle gave for the addon module.
>
> Quite common 10 years back, but mostly out of use today.

Are there PCI-X NICs available?

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack

--
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ######################
Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux

itsystems@tdnet France EURL itsystems@tdnet UG (limited liability)
Owner Michelle Konzack Owner Michelle Konzack

Apt. 917 (homeoffice)
50, rue de Soultz Kinzigstraße 17
67100 Strasbourg/France 77694 Kehl/Germany
Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil
Tel: +49-176-86004575 office

<http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://www.flexray4linux.org/>
<http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://www.can4linux.org/>

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