FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian ISP

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 01-10-2008, 12:57 PM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default New Mailserver...

Am 2008-01-09 11:15:40, schrieb Jean-Paul Blaquiere:
> > On Jan 08, Roberto C. S?nchez illuminated :
>
> > Or keeping one or more spares on hand.
> >
> if you feel like keeping an EU$800 card lying around, sure.
> That is the correct option, if you can afford it.

Since I have currently six 3w9500-8S running I have bought one in
reserve. Same for my four running ICP/Vortex (3-Channel Raid-5)
but they are a little bit more expensive.

But in general, I think, if you have at least 3 or 4 Controlers
of the same type running, you should HAVE the mone for a reserve
controller and maybe some harddrives (I use Raptors with 36, 74
and 150 GByte and the Hitach Nearline with 1 TByte)

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
0033/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
 
Old 01-11-2008, 01:38 PM
Andrew Miehs
 
Default New Mailserver...

On 11/01/2008, at 3:19 PM, Boris Pavlov wrote:




I am not a big fan of 3ware Raid controllers. Up until now it was
because

they were just plan SLOW...


just a quick word from me - simple, can not agree that they are
slow. they are not SLOW (caps on) either - comparing to soft raid -
same raid level on same computer.


I am glad that you have had better success with them than I have.

My 'slow' experience comes from 2 Linux servers running

[ 40.834489] 3ware Storage Controller device driver for Linux
v1.26.02.001.

[ 46.993597] scsi2 : 3ware Storage Controller
[ 46.993692] 3w-xxxx: scsi2: Found a 3ware Storage Controller at
0xafa0, IRQ: 22.

[ 46.993980] Vendor: 3ware Model: Logical Disk 0 Rev: 1.2
[ 46.995418] Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI
revision: 00

[ 46.995952] Vendor: 3ware Model: Logical Disk 2 Rev: 1.2
[ 46.997401] Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI
revision: 00
[ 46.999678] 3ware 9000 Storage Controller device driver for Linux
v2.26.02.004.


0000:02:02.0 RAID bus controller: 3ware Inc 3ware 7000-series ATA-RAID
(rev 01)

Subsystem: 3ware Inc 3ware Inc 3ware 7xxx/8xxx-series PATA/SATA-RAID
Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 22
I/O ports at afa0 [size=16]
Memory at fe7ffff0 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16]
Memory at fd800000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8M]
Expansion ROM at fe7e0000 [disabled] [size=64K]
Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 1

These cards are about 4 years old now - and the disks directly
connected to the
SATA controller are quicker than the the same disks connected via the
3ware

controller - timing with 'dd' and hdparm.

And I have had similar experience on 1 windows server - which is
running the same card.

- Windows 2003 running as a file server.
- This will be replaced in the next 3 months with a NetAPP



As of yesterday, I have discovered that the standard etch 64 bit
kernel 2.6.18-5

does not work correctly with these cards and causes data corruption.


with which models in particular ? you've mentioned "cardS" could you
share which ones you have problems with?


This is a new setup - with 7x identical 3ware 64 bit pci cards (have
started a new thread regarding this problem).




If you want to do it cheap, use Software Raid.


Completely agree. Cheaper raid than software raid is not currently
available.


Note: i did not said 'cost effective'.




Personally - I would use some sort of SAS/ SCSI Raid for the boot
disks, and use an external storage such
as 'Infortrend' or NetApp depending on budget. I really dislike
internal mass storage.


Cheers

Andrew
 
Old 01-12-2008, 10:17 AM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default New Mailserver...

Hello Craig,

Am 2008-01-10 20:54:01, schrieb Craig Sanders:
> > The smallest WD Raptor drives are 36 GByte which mean, I need at least
> > 7 of them but maybe I will go with a 3w9560-8 which can do Raid-6 (for
> > the Mailstorage). The problem will be only the price for the disks
> > (800 Euro) and for the controller (800 Euro) since mainboards and CPU's
> > plus Memory are going cheap.
>
> for a load of only 40,000 msgs/day, why waste the money on fast but
> expensive scsi drives like these?

I am archiving millions of messages and they must be availlable 24/7
which mean, I can not have any trust in IDE-Drives (even SATA drives
with IDE Hardware)

Also the contents of those E-Mails are stored in a PostgreSQL which
is a separate server...

> get a pair of 160GB SATA drives for the mail store, and run them in
> software raid-1. they'll give you slightly more space (160GB vs 144GB),
> cost a fraction of the price, and they will be significantly faster
> because it's only raid-1 rather than hideously slow raid-5.

And if you have a power fail, your software Raid-1 will screw up.
(We have already tested it here... with very negative results)

Ane if one of your drives fail, how do the Hot-Fix work in SW Raid?

In a Hardware-Raid a NOOB can replace a defective drive sins the
controler care about the rest but in a Software-Raid you need
User-Intervention and of course, you can not have HotSwap except
if you put the drives on A USB-Controller but this costs resources.

But before using a 144 GB SCSI drive, you can use a Raptor 150 GB which
is SCSI-Mechanic too, but has a SATA2 interface and costs under 240 Euro
(the 144GB SCSI-Drive twice the price plus more expensive controller)

> (raid-1 is many times faster than raid-5 without NV write cache. it's
> even a lot faster than raid-5 *with* NV write cache).
>
>
> and get another pair for the OS and everything else.

I do Raid-1 + Hotfix for the OS since years... :-)
even with cheap (36 Euro) 80 GByte SATA1 drives

> > My limit is currently by arround 1500 Euro.
>
> here in .au, you'd be able to get a headless (no screen or kbd)
> dual-core amd64 am2 system with 2GB RAM for about $AUD600.

Since I want to continue the use of 19" Racks, I have only the need
for the MB, CPU, Memory and maybe GraCa.

Here you pay for a CHEAP AM2 Mainboard 60 Euro, an "AMD Athlon 64 X2
4600+ Box EE" arround 75 Euro and for 2 GByte memory arround 90 Euro.

So at least 225 Euro for a "tuning kit".

> 160GB sata drives are about $AUD60 each, x4 = $AUD240.

60 AU$ ? in DE or FR I pay for a 160 GByte drive arround 60 Euro
and for a Raid-Edition (e.g. WD1600YS) 72 Euro.

> all up, around $AUD840. and that would be massive overkill for the job.

But you forgot, that I do automated mailprocessing (->PostgreSQL) and
the scripts need resources too. When I installed the first time my
@home Mailserver I was using three (Raid-1 + Hotfix) 80 GByte SATA1
drives and they gaved up in less then 1 year. Then I was switching
to a used AMI Megaraid Enterprise 1200 (3 Channels, Raid-5) and now
the system was working with 3 SCSI-Drives of 9 GByte (Raid-1 + Hotfix)
and a Raid-5 of 5 SCSI-Drives for the Mailstorage.

Never had problems in the last years, even the SCSI-Drives went used
ones... (They are dated from 1999 and 2000)

> current exchange rate is 1 Euro ~= 1.66 AUD.
>
> so that would be about 506 Euro. only a third of your budget.

This would mean, if I buy at least 10 SATA2 160GB Drives in Australia
I am cheaper there even with transport costs as buying in Strasbourg...

Sounds a little bit crazy...

> you could enjoy the savings or indulge in some frills:
>
> more than enough left over to bring it up to 4GB RAM if you want, and a
> couple of spare 160GB drives (and/or or buy 250GB or 320GB or even 500GB
> drives instead of 160s).

I do not need Diskspace for the Mailserver (146 GByte would be enough...
since I have currently only 52 GByte from 6 years) but security and this
on maximum levey I can pay as private person.

> maybe even go for one of the new quad-core amd64 CPUs. they're only
> about $AUD100 more. spamassassin is not only a memory pig, it's a CPU
> hog too....lots and lots of regular expression comparisons.

Do you have a suggestion for Mainboard working perfectly with a Quad-
Core CPU? Since some times I was running into a memory problem with
3 GByte I like to install 6-8 GByte...

> there's even enough money left over to buy a fully populate Gigabyte
> I-RAM card (battery-backed ramdisk up to 4GB in size, with a SATA
> interface) which you could mount as /var/spool/postfix
>
> actually, i just re-read your msg above and you run courier instead
> of postfix. mount it as whatever directory courier MTA uses for it's
> incoming spool and temporary processing area. that's where a large part
> of the bottleneck is in mail processing.

/var/spool/courier :-)

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
0033/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
 
Old 01-16-2008, 01:55 PM
Thomas Goirand
 
Default New Mailserver...

Michelle Konzack wrote:
> And if you have a power fail, your software Raid-1 will screw up.
> (We have already tested it here... with very negative results)
>
> Ane if one of your drives fail, how do the Hot-Fix work in SW Raid?

This has been discussed here many times. Hot-fix IS possible with
software raid, please read the archive of this list where I posted the
list of commands. And please, don't go again in a war between software
and hardware raid, it's ridiculous. Use what you feel is right, and let
the other use what they like...

> In a Hardware-Raid a NOOB can replace a defective drive sins the
> controler care about the rest but in a Software-Raid you need
> User-Intervention and of course, you can not have HotSwap except
> if you put the drives on A USB-Controller but this costs resources.

Wrong, SATA2 do accept hotswap, we did it many times.

> But before using a 144 GB SCSI drive, you can use a Raptor 150 GB which
> is SCSI-Mechanic too, but has a SATA2 interface and costs under 240 Euro
> (the 144GB SCSI-Drive twice the price plus more expensive controller)

Where exactly did you see that SCSI and SATA have different internal
mechanic? I really don't think this is the case. I would rather advise
somebody to use the seagate -NG series that have longer MTBF.

> Do you have a suggestion for Mainboard working perfectly with a Quad-
> Core CPU? Since some times I was running into a memory problem with
> 3 GByte I like to install 6-8 GByte...

At GPLHost, we are VERY happy with the Supermicro PDSME or PDSMU (nearly
same board, one have 3 more PCI slots that we anyway don't use). They
support core 2 quad core, and up to 8 GB, with a very good SATA2
controler (that has "hardware" raid option in the BIOS that I never
use). I'm very happy with them, especially when using the AOC-SIM1U+
IPMI board (integrated KVM + virtual media over LAN).

Thomas Goirand


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-isp-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-16-2008, 05:37 PM
Marc Haber
 
Default New Mailserver...

On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 at 12:17:53PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> I am archiving millions of messages and they must be availlable 24/7
> which mean, I can not have any trust in IDE-Drives (even SATA drives
> with IDE Hardware)

Define "IDE Hardware".

Greetings
Marc


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 3221 2323190


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-isp-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-16-2008, 06:12 PM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default New Mailserver...

Am 2008-01-16 22:55:18, schrieb Thomas Goirand:
> Where exactly did you see that SCSI and SATA have different internal
> mechanic? I really don't think this is the case. I would rather advise
> somebody to use the seagate -NG series that have longer MTBF.

On the websites of Seagate, Western Digital and Hitachi.
They have photos from opened IDE and SCSI drives.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
0033/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
 
Old 01-16-2008, 06:24 PM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default New Mailserver...

Am 2008-01-16 19:37:10, schrieb Marc Haber:
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 at 12:17:53PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > I am archiving millions of messages and they must be availlable 24/7
> > which mean, I can not have any trust in IDE-Drives (even SATA drives
> > with IDE Hardware)
>
> Define "IDE Hardware".

Real SCSI drives have more physical heads, the motors are more
powerfull and the "Lager" (wie heisen die auf englisch?) are
made for permanent load. Also you should not boot and shutdown
SCSI-Drives very often like Desktop dirves/computers.

AND: My 300 GByte 15.000RpM drives are consuming nearly twice
the energie like a 1 TByte Hitachi Deskstar.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
0033/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
 
Old 01-16-2008, 07:36 PM
Marc Haber
 
Default New Mailserver...

On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 08:24:35PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Real SCSI drives have more physical heads, the motors are more
> powerfull and the "Lager" (wie heisen die auf englisch?) are
> made for permanent load. Also you should not boot and shutdown
> SCSI-Drives very often like Desktop dirves/computers.

All this is fully independent of which interface is used on the drive.

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 3221 2323190


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-isp-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 03:18 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org