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Old 05-04-2011, 01:09 PM
shirish शिरीष
 
Default Understanding debdelta.

Hi all,
Please CC me if somebody decides to respond.

As somebody who is interested in debdelta I was happy to see
http://lists.debian.org/debian-dpkg/2011/05/msg00006.html .

Coincidentally I just published a blog post about the same
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com/2011/05/04/aptitude-debian-unstable-and-ubuntu/
which I had been thinking for quite sometime now.

Anyway while I'm no power user, please correct me as I see the things
I have to do.

a. $ sudo aptitude install -t experimental debdelta

b. gksudo leafpad (or whatever favorite text editor)
/etc/debdelta/sources.conf , see if this file is there, if not
add/append it.

[main debian archive]
Origin=Debian
Label=Debian
delta_uri=http://debdeltas.debian.net/debian-deltas

c. Change my /etc/apt/sources.list say from
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free

to

deb http://ftp.linux.it/ sid main contrib non-free

just to take an example.

d. Then do $sudo aptitude update and then $sudo debdelta-upgrade .

Now while the three above steps seem to be okish, I am not really
certain of the fourth. What I usually do is

$sudo aptitude safe-upgrade as well as $sudo aptitude dist-upgrade and
then see which of them have either some grave/serious bugs which might
make my desktop not so stable ( via apt-listbugs)

Finding the least costly/safe way I usually end up doing

$sudo aptitude install foo (where foo is/are the package/s with the
upgrade) and aptitude does the necessary thing. How would I do the
same with debdelta-upgrade ?


Also how would it work with say something like deb
http://mozilla.debian.net/ experimental iceweasel-5.0

Should I be using the normal aptitude installation or upgrade paths in
such a case ?

Looking forward to info. and any clarifications or something that I
might have mentioned wrong/incorrectly.

--
* * * * * Regards,
* * * * * Shirish Agarwal* शिरीष अग्रवाल
* My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com
065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3* 8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17


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Old 05-08-2011, 09:38 AM
A Mennucc
 
Default Understanding debdelta.

Dear Shirish and dpkg-devel,

I am writing a complete debdelta documentation, see in
http://debdelta.debian.net/html/

let me also mention that Ubuntu is interested in deploying debdelta as
well, see in
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-o-debdelta/

Il 08/05/2011 07:07, shirish शिरीष ha scritto:
> [...]
> Anyway while I'm no power user, please correct me as I see the things
> I have to do.
>
> a. $ sudo aptitude install -t experimental debdelta
>
>
OK
> b. gksudo leafpad (or whatever favorite text editor)
> /etc/debdelta/sources.conf , see if this file is there, if not
> add/append it.
>
> [main debian archive]
> Origin=Debian
> Label=Debian
> delta_uri=http://debdeltas.debian.net/debian-deltas
>
>
the file should be there and already contain those lines
> c. Change my /etc/apt/sources.list say from
> deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free
>
> to
>
> deb http://ftp.linux.it/ sid main contrib non-free
>
> just to take an example.
>
No! there is no need to change /etc/apt/sources.conf ; you just need to
have a line pointing to a mirror of the Debian archive (of your choice),
and since you already have , then it is fine
> d. Then do $sudo aptitude update and then $sudo debdelta-upgrade .
>
1st of all: despite of the name, debdelta-upgrade does not really
"upgrade" packages, it just recreates those that would be used for a
successive 'apt-get dist-upgrade'. So the sequence should be

# apt-get update
# debdelta-upgrade
# apt-get dist-upgrade

and similarly for aptitude

> Now while the three above steps seem to be okish, I am not really
> certain of the fourth. What I usually do is
>
> $sudo aptitude safe-upgrade as well as $sudo aptitude dist-upgrade and
> then see which of them have either some grave/serious bugs which might
> make my desktop not so stable ( via apt-listbugs)
>
> Finding the least costly/safe way I usually end up doing
>
> $sudo aptitude install foo (where foo is/are the package/s with the
> upgrade) and aptitude does the necessary thing. How would I do the
> same with debdelta-upgrade ?
>
>
if you specify a list of package names to debdelta-upgrade, e.g.
# debdelta-upgrade foobar libfoobar
then only those packages will be recreated ; after that you call
'aptitude install foobar libfoobar'

(all this will be much more convenient once the integration of debdelta
in APT is done!)
> Also how would it work with say something like deb
> http://mozilla.debian.net/ experimental iceweasel-5.0
>
it does not work, as long as no one is generating a repository of deltas
for that archive ( if someone ever will, then they will also tell you
which stanza to add in /etc/debdelta/sources.conf )

a.
 
Old 05-08-2011, 06:20 PM
Christopher Baines
 
Default Understanding debdelta.

On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 11:38 +0200, A Mennucc wrote:
> > Also how would it work with say something like deb
> > http://mozilla.debian.net/ experimental iceweasel-5.0
> >
> it does not work, as long as no one is generating a repository of deltas
> for that archive ( if someone ever will, then they will also tell you
> which stanza to add in /etc/debdelta/sources.conf )

Surely the best fix to this problem is to instead of keeping debs and
there respective deltas in separate repositories, they should be kept in
the same repository? Another way of saying this is that there should be
no difference between the repositories for debdeltas and debs.

Once the debdelta apt integration is complete, this will make a lot more
sense.

Chris
 
Old 05-09-2011, 10:06 PM
 
Default Understanding debdelta.

> I am writing a complete debdelta documentation, see in
> http://debdelta.debian.net/html/
Thanks, I read it and I have some notes.
One of the main goal is to speedup upgrading. Here are today's numbers from my computer:
downloaded deltas, size 6547kB time 198sec speed 32kB/sec
patching to debs, size 84MB time 153sec speed 563kB/sec
downloaded debs, size 783kB time 1sec speed 404kB/sec
total resulting debs, size 85MB time 267sec virtual speed 326kB/sec
I have fast computer and major time was "wasted" by downloading of the *debdelta files. They are downloaded significantly slower then the *.deb files, obviously it is 5-10 times. I not analyzed the situation in detail but I guess that it is caused by slower server or by latency (small file has the same latency like the big one).
>From my point of view the solution is to do in parallel downloads (not in TODO) and also patching (it is in TODO).
TonyMi


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Old 05-10-2011, 07:32 AM
shirish शिरीष
 
Default Understanding debdelta.

At bottom :-

2011/5/10 <tonda.misek@post.cz>:
>> I am writing a complete debdelta documentation, see in
>> http://debdelta.debian.net/html/
> Thanks, I read it and I have some notes.
> One of the main goal is to speedup upgrading. Here are today's numbers from my computer:
> *downloaded deltas, size 6547kB time 198sec speed 32kB/sec
> *patching to debs, size 84MB time 153sec speed 563kB/sec
> *downloaded debs, size 783kB time 1sec speed 404kB/sec
> *total resulting debs, size 85MB time 267sec virtual speed 326kB/sec
> I have fast computer and major time was "wasted" by downloading of the *debdelta files. They are downloaded significantly slower then the *.deb files, obviously it is 5-10 times. I not analyzed the situation in detail but I guess that it is caused by slower server or by latency (small file has the same latency like the big one).
> From my point of view the solution is to do in parallel downloads (not in TODO) and also patching (it is in TODO).
> TonyMi

I have been having issues with not getting any deltas downloaded so
far. Even traceroute goes something like halfway.

As a user I would suppose/suggest let the service be first as reliable
as it can be and then improvements as given above be suggested.

I am interested to see the debdelta package coming to 'sid' or
'unstable' so there is wider testing of both the infrastructure (i.e.
maybe some uptake in some mirrors to test it out or something) and see
how they scale up or not. It would be interesting too if Mennucc at
some indeterminate time in the future also shares some stats as to how
many debdeltas were downloaded and how much bandwidth saved for others
to further take part in the experience.

Thinking aloud, just my 2 paise. Looking forward to trying it out for real.
--
* * * * * Regards,
* * * * * Shirish Agarwal* शिरीष अग्रवाल
* My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com
065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3* 8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17


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Old 05-10-2011, 07:11 PM
shirish शिरीष
 
Default Understanding debdelta.

2011/5/10 shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com>:
> It would be interesting too if Mennucc at some >indeterminate time in the future also shares some stats as >to how many debdeltas were downloaded and how much >bandwidth saved for others to further take part in the >experience.

pretty interesting, saved around 2/3rds of the bandwidth today.

sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
Resolving dependencies...
The following NEW packages will be installed:
linux-image-2.6.38-2-amd64{a}
The following packages will be upgraded:
alsa-utils devscripts exim4-base exim4-config exim4-daemon-light
libboost-date-time1.46-dev libboost-date-time1.46.1
libboost-program-options1.46.1 libboost-python1.46.1
libboost-serialization1.46-dev libboost-serialization1.46.1
libboost-thread1.46-dev libboost-thread1.46.1 libboost1.46-dev
libdirac-decoder0 libdirac-encoder0 libdvbpsi6 libgupnp-igd-1.0-3
liblouis-data liblouis2 linux-image-2.6-amd64 python-crypto
python-louis
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
alsa-base
23 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Need to get 45.3 MB of archives. After unpacking 102 MB will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?] n


$ sudo debdelta-upgrade alsa-utils devscripts exim4-base exim4-config
exim4-daemon-light libboost-date-time1.46-dev libboost-date-time1.46.1
libboost-program-options1.46.1 libboost-python1.46.1
libboost-serialization1.46-dev libboost-serialization1.46.1
libboost-thread1.46-dev libboost-thread1.46.1 libboost1.46-dev
libdirac-decoder0 libdirac-encoder0 libdvbpsi6 libgupnp-igd-1.0-3
liblouis-data liblouis2 python-crypto python-louis
Created, time 1.02sec, speed 1064kB/sec, alsa-utils_1.0.23-5+b1_amd64.deb
Delta is too big:
libboost-program-options1.46.1_1.46.1-4_1.46.1-5_amd64.debdelta
Delta is too big:
libboost-serialization1.46-dev_1.46.1-4_1.46.1-5_amd64.debdelta
Delta is too big: libboost-serialization1.46.1_1.46.1-4_1.46.1-5_amd64.debdelta
Created, time 0.23sec, speed 110kB/sec,
libgupnp-igd-1.0-3_0.1.11-1_amd64.deb
Delta is too big: liblouis2_2.2.0-1_2.3.0-1_amd64.debdelta
Created, time 0.21sec, speed 79kB/sec, python-louis_2.3.0-1_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 0.19sec, speed 25kB/sec,
exim4-base_4.75-3_4.76-1_amd64.debdelta
Downloaded, time 0.21sec, speed 37kB/sec,
libboost-date-time1.46.1_1.46.1-4_1.46.1-5_amd64.debdelta
Downloaded, time 0.21sec, speed 46kB/sec,
libboost-date-time1.46-dev_1.46.1-4_1.46.1-5_amd64.debdelta
Downloaded, time 0.21sec, speed 47kB/sec,
libdvbpsi6_0.1.7-1_0.1.7-2_amd64.debdelta
Downloaded, time 0.35sec, speed 54kB/sec,
exim4-config_4.75-3_4.76-1_all.debdelta
Created, time 0.99sec, speed 1013kB/sec, exim4-base_4.76-1_amd64.deb
Created, time 0.23sec, speed 188kB/sec,
libboost-date-time1.46.1_1.46.1-5_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 0.34sec, speed 58kB/sec,
devscripts_2.10.72_2.10.73_amd64.debdelta
Created, time 0.27sec, speed 172kB/sec,
libboost-date-time1.46-dev_1.46.1-5_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 0.26sec, speed 76kB/sec,
libboost-thread1.46.1_1.46.1-4_1.46.1-5_amd64.debdelta
Created, time 0.18sec, speed 236kB/sec, libdvbpsi6_0.1.7-2_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 0.29sec, speed 82kB/sec,
libboost-thread1.46-dev_1.46.1-4_1.46.1-5_amd64.debdelta
Created, time 0.37sec, speed 1225kB/sec, exim4-config_4.76-1_all.deb
Created, time 1.57sec, speed 403kB/sec, devscripts_2.10.73_amd64.deb
Created, time 0.19sec, speed 298kB/sec,
libboost-thread1.46.1_1.46.1-5_amd64.deb
Created, time 0.24sec, speed 258kB/sec,
libboost-thread1.46-dev_1.46.1-5_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 5.74sec, speed 4670B/sec,
liblouis-data_2.2.0-1_2.3.0-1_all.debdelta
Created, time 1.55sec, speed 659kB/sec, liblouis-data_2.3.0-1_all.deb
Downloaded, time 1.85sec, speed 73kB/sec,
python-crypto_2.1.0-2+b2_2.3-1_amd64.debdelta
Created, time 1.06sec, speed 398kB/sec, python-crypto_2.3-1_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 4.57sec, speed 31kB/sec,
libdirac-decoder0_1.0.2-3_1.0.2-4_amd64.debdelta
Created, time 0.27sec, speed 1148kB/sec, libdirac-decoder0_1.0.2-4_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 5.13sec, speed 28kB/sec,
exim4-daemon-light_4.75-3_4.76-1_amd64.debdelta
Created, time 0.56sec, speed 1107kB/sec, exim4-daemon-light_4.76-1_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 5.18sec, speed 29kB/sec,
libboost-python1.46.1_1.46.1-4_1.46.1-5_amd64.debdelta
Created, time 0.38sec, speed 927kB/sec,
libboost-python1.46.1_1.46.1-5_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 7.01sec, speed 29kB/sec,
libdirac-encoder0_1.0.2-3_1.0.2-4_amd64.debdelta
Created, time 0.38sec, speed 982kB/sec, libdirac-encoder0_1.0.2-4_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 34.38sec, speed 29kB/sec,
libboost1.46-dev_1.46.1-4_1.46.1-5_amd64.debdelta
Downloaded, time 6.89sec, speed 9kB/sec, liblouis2_2.3.0-1_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 4.70sec, speed 43kB/sec,
libboost-serialization1.46.1_1.46.1-5_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 12.91sec, speed 23kB/sec,
libboost-serialization1.46-dev_1.46.1-5_amd64.deb
Downloaded, time 7.58sec, speed 21kB/sec,
libboost-program-options1.46.1_1.46.1-5_amd64.deb
Created, time 38.64sec, speed 197kB/sec, libboost1.46-dev_1.46.1-5_amd64.deb
Delta-upgrade statistics:

Now, for the real thing, see the real difference.

$ sudo aptitude install alsa-utils devscripts exim4-base exim4-config
exim4-daemon-light libboost-date-time1.46-dev libboost-date-time1.46.1
libboost-program-options1.46.1 libboost-python1.46.1
libboost-serialization1.46-dev libboost-serialization1.46.1
libboost-thread1.46-dev libboost-thread1.46.1 libboost1.46-dev
libdirac-decoder0 libdirac-encoder0 libdvbpsi6 libgupnp-igd-1.0-3
liblouis-data liblouis2 python-crypto python-louis
The following packages will be upgraded:
alsa-utils devscripts exim4-base exim4-config exim4-daemon-light
libboost-date-time1.46-dev libboost-date-time1.46.1
libboost-program-options1.46.1 libboost-python1.46.1
libboost-serialization1.46-dev libboost-serialization1.46.1
libboost-thread1.46-dev libboost-thread1.46.1 libboost1.46-dev
libdirac-decoder0 libdirac-encoder0 libdvbpsi6 libgupnp-igd-1.0-3
liblouis-data liblouis2 python-crypto python-louis
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
alsa-base
22 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/15.3 MB of archives. After unpacking 3,412 kB will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?] Y
Reading package fields... Done
Reading package status... Done
Retrieving bug reports... Done
Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done
apt-listchanges: Mailing root: apt-listchanges: changelogs for deb-home
Preconfiguring packages ...

What's interesting to note is that the download is down from ~45 MB to
only 15 MB, i.e 1/3 of the bandwidth used.

I can confirm though that even both the speed and the latency needs
to get much better.

Just my 2 paise.
--
* * * * * Regards,
* * * * * Shirish Agarwal* शिरीष अग्रवाल
* My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com
065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3* 8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17


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