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Old 09-13-2012, 06:48 PM
Игорь Пашев
 
Default Dyson project (Debian on illumos kernel)

Hi, all.

I think it's time to announce, that I've been working on a new Debian
port from the last fall.
This is Debian on illumos kernel (formerly OpenSolaris) - http://osdyson.org

It really aims to be *general-purpose* OS, not a server, a destop or
an appliance.

I was motivated because Nexenta Core Platform is dead [1] and because I can :-)
And, in fact, NCP was not following Debian design:
1. It has terrible multiarch: 32- and 64-bit components in a signle package.
2. Huge packages like system-library with all libraries from illlumos, including
libc, PAM, Kerberos, python bindings and many others.

Dyson is a Debian derivative constructed from scratch. I'm doing
carefull packaging
of illumos bits (all nifty things like libc1, libc1-dev, libc-bin, etc
are present ;-).
I'm throwing out all illumos components which exists as separate
projects, keeping
only things which is unique for illumos: ZFS, DTrace, Fault Managment,
devfsadm, RBAC, SMF, etc.
I guess it is quite similar to Debian/kfreebsd. For example,
I have ported Linux PAM, shadow, openSSH. I'm using GNU userland. Of
course, some tools
will need to be patched to support some illumos features.

I'm following Debian testing/unstable. Dyson has multiarch support with
DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH=x86_64-illumos or i386-illumos.
Currently, it is only x86_64-illumos, dpkg arch is "illumos-amd64".
You can browse package at http://apt.osdyson.org/


Thus Dyson is to be Debian as much as possible, it even has package "locales"
and one can issue "dpkg-reconfigure locales" :-)


For now Dyson exists only in my VM. Here is a VirtualBox HDD image:
ftp://osdyson.org/download/vdi/, but I'm not sure if anyone can smoothly upgrade
from APT repo due to conflicts. I'm not going to bother with it while
illumos packaging
is a kind of scientific investigation :-) It has X server, but I
didn't compile any driver yet.

Also there is a bootable ISO: ftp://osdyson.org/download/iso/2012-05-22/

I do not have installer yet, but have some thoughts:
http://git.osdyson.org/?p=live.git

Currently i'm working on packaging illumos from source [2]
I've patched GNU make to support illumos makefiles [3] as well as GNU
ld from binutils
to support LD_ALTEXEC [4] since illumos linker is required to build
illumos sources
and GNU toolchain is the default on Dyson (GCC 4.7, binutils 2.22+)
I've written debhelper addons to ease building illumos [5]

In a long term I'd like to have glibc ported [6].

A side effect of Dyson project is a "socialization" of illumos with
opensource world,
so it will be possible to have Gentoo on illumos kernel. It will
better fit with other
open source projects and development tools (cc, bison, flex, etc).
Just one example:
illumos kernel (yes. kernel, not userspace) has own kerberos implementation
and ships /usr/include/gssapi/gssapi.h. This prevents from installing
other kerberos
libraries. I've moved illumos gssapi.h inot /usr/include/sys/.

In a short term Dyson uses illumos kernel, illumos libc and SMF as init system.

Ok, there are to many thing I'd like to tell, it is easier for me to
answer questions :-)
You are welcome!


[1] http://wiki.illumos.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=1147367
[2] http://git.osdyson.org/?p=illumos-packaging.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/source
[3] https://github.com/ip1981/gunmake/commits/sunmake
[4] http://osdyson.org/projects/binutils/repository/entry/patches/300_ld_altexec.patch
[5] http://git.osdyson.org/?p=dh-illumos.git
[6] https://github.com/ip1981/kopensolaris-glibc/commits/master


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Old 09-13-2012, 07:21 PM
Arno Töll
 
Default Dyson project (Debian on illumos kernel)

Hi,

On 13.09.2012 20:48, Игорь Пашев wrote:
> I think it's time to announce, that I've been working on a new Debian
> port from the last fall.
> This is Debian on illumos kernel (formerly OpenSolaris) - http://osdyson.org


I like that idea (but I'm also involved in other "toy ports"). Do you
have any concrete plan to make a Debian port out of your project, aiming
full integration into Debian?


> It really aims to be *general-purpose* OS, not a server, a destop or
> an appliance.

... which usually raises questions about the driver usability. In
particular I wonder, if you looked at the kernel with respect to the
Debian's Free Software Guidelines, i.e. did you strip off non-free
drivers and blobs from the pristine kernel?

More generally speaking: Did you develop your port by having freeness of
(source) packages in mind?

> Dyson is a Debian derivative constructed from scratch. I'm doing
> carefull packaging
> of illumos bits (all nifty things like libc1, libc1-dev, libc-bin, etc
> are present ;-).

So you use the Solaris libc? Did you test that for interoperability with
Debian's (e)glibc? Note, kFreeBSD is also using a (patched) version of
(e)glibc, not FreeBSD's libc. I read below, you would like to use
(e)glibc as well, what are major issues there?

> only things which is unique for illumos: ZFS, DTrace, Fault Managment,
> devfsadm, RBAC, SMF, etc.

Did you make proper source packages out of that? Do you have some
statistics how much of Debian main builds on your system for the time
being?


> Currently i'm working on packaging illumos from source [2]
> I've patched GNU make to support illumos makefiles [3] as well as GNU
> ld from binutils
> to support LD_ALTEXEC [4] since illumos linker is required to build
> illumos sources
> and GNU toolchain is the default on Dyson (GCC 4.7, binutils 2.22+)
> I've written debhelper addons to ease building illumos [5]

While this is an implementation detail being up to you, I suggest to
look at kfreebsd core packages. These had a similar problem (GNU make
vs. BSD make), and it was solved in a pretty lazy way. YMMV.

> Just one example:
> illumos kernel (yes. kernel, not userspace) has own kerberos implementation
> and ships /usr/include/gssapi/gssapi.h. This prevents from installing
> other kerberos
> libraries. I've moved illumos gssapi.h inot /usr/include/sys/.

Historically, Linux did similar things. For example we had a kernel NFS
server and user space NFS servers for a long time. That said, Kerberos
is another level of insanity, without doubt.

--
with kind regards,
Arno Töll
IRC: daemonkeeper on Freenode/OFTC
GnuPG Key-ID: 0x9D80F36D
 
Old 09-13-2012, 11:35 PM
Paul Wise
 
Default Dyson project (Debian on illumos kernel)

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 2:48 AM, Игорь Пашев wrote:

> I think it's time to announce, that I've been working on a new Debian
> port from the last fall.
> This is Debian on illumos kernel (formerly OpenSolaris) - http://osdyson.org

Is your plan to create a Debian derivative or a Debian port to be
integrated into Debian proper?

We already have one of the former based on OpenSolaris/IllumOS:

http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census/StormOS

Their patches against Debian packages might be helpful to you:

http://dex.alioth.debian.org/census/StormOS/patches/

If you want to make a Debian port instead, your first step would be to
move Dyson to debian-ports.org

You would also need to have license compatibility between your libc
and all the GPLed stuff in Debian.

If you don't intend to create a Debian port, please join the Debian
derivatives census and take a look at our other derivatives stuff:

http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives
http://wiki.debian.org/DerivativesFrontDesk
http://wiki.debian.org/DerivativesFrontDesk/FAQ
http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census
http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Guidelines
http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/CensusQA
http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Integration

--
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Old 09-14-2012, 05:41 AM
Paul Wise
 
Default Dyson project (Debian on illumos kernel)

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 2:48 AM, Игорь Пашев wrote:

> I think it's time to announce, that I've been working on a new Debian
> port from the last fall.
> This is Debian on illumos kernel (formerly OpenSolaris) - http://osdyson.org

I forgot to mention this site, perhaps their stuff will help you:

http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~dtbartle/opensolaris/

--
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Old 09-14-2012, 03:01 PM
Paul Wise
 
Default Dyson project (Debian on illumos kernel)

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Paul Wise wrote:

> We already have one of the former based on OpenSolaris/IllumOS:
>
> http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census/StormOS

StormOS is now officially dead and recommending people look at Dyson:

http://stormos.org/node/2378

--
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Old 09-14-2012, 07:42 PM
Игорь Пашев
 
Default Dyson project (Debian on illumos kernel)

> Do you have any concrete plan to make
> a Debian port out of your project, aiming
> full integration into Debian?

Full integration into Debian is a big challenge,
it could be #3 among these large steps:

1. Make self-hosted distribution with illumos kernel and libc
2. Port glibc
3. Full integration into Debian


> More generally speaking: Did you develop
> your port by having freeness of
> (source) packages in mind?

Yes, freeness is #1 in my mind.


> So you use the Solaris libc? Did you test that for
> interoperability with Debian's (e)glibc? Note, kFreeBSD is
> also using a (patched) version of (e)glibc, not FreeBSD's
> libc. I read below, you would like to use (e)glibc as well,
> what are major issues there?

Well, issues are:
- Manpower.
- I do not know illumos kernel deep enough

I've picked patches from http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~dtbartle/opensolaris/
and applied them onto modern glibc: https://github.com/ip1981/kopensolaris-glibc
After step #1 it will be much easier. I already can understand
almost everything written in
https://github.com/ip1981/kopensolaris-glibc/blob/master/NOTES.opensolaris
:-)



> While this is an implementation detail being up to you, I suggest to
> look at kfreebsd core packages. These had a similar problem (GNU make
> vs. BSD make), and it was solved in a pretty lazy way. YMMV.

There is open-source SunOS make - https://github.com/ip1981/sunmake.
It has two issues:
1. Cannot run several jobs (-j N)
2. Segfaults at illumos libsocket :-)

illumos used to be build with "dmake" from Solaris Studio. (It is not
the same as for OpenOffice)
This is absolutely not an option.

So I decided to patch GNU make.


> Did you make proper source packages out of that?
This what I'm currently working on. Technically, it *is* solved now.
That why I dare to announce Dyson :-)

> Do you
> have some statistics how much of Debian main builds on
> your system for the time being?

If I understand you correctly:

find -name *.deb | wc -l
4746

You can browse at http://apt.osdyson.org

Now I have full Perl, Python, Ruby stacks, GCC toolchain,
git, hg, bzr, subversion, git-buildpackage, etc.
Almost everything for development, but Emacs :-P

There is no problem to grab recent version from Debian and to rebuild.
Most perl modules just copied as is.


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