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Old 09-11-2012, 07:55 PM
Florian Weimer
 
Default Gnome classic mode

* Ian Jackson:

> So if it works just fine without the 3D I don't understand what the
> warning is for.

It's a separate desktop environment, and not lust a lack of visual
effects. None of the Javascript parts work in fallback mode because
GNOME Shell isn't running.


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Old 09-11-2012, 10:19 PM
Philipp Kern
 
Default Gnome classic mode

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 01:38:08PM -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Wookey wrote:
> > I'd be happy if xfce was the default. Which is better depends if one
> > prefers 'dull-but-works-everywhere' over
> > 'shiny-but-not-universaly-liked'. I can see reasonable arguments in
> > favour of either.
> Robustness is a rather important/lofty goal especially given the often
> touted "universal operating system" moniker [0],[1]. Debian has never
> been specifically about the latest shiny anyway. So, let's be brave
> and choose the less ubiquitous (today) but more robust overall option.

Does it support accessibility? Just because you quote that we're universal…

Kind regards
Philipp Kern


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Old 09-11-2012, 10:30 PM
Michael Gilbert
 
Default Gnome classic mode

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 01:38:08PM -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Wookey wrote:
>> > I'd be happy if xfce was the default. Which is better depends if one
>> > prefers 'dull-but-works-everywhere' over
>> > 'shiny-but-not-universaly-liked'. I can see reasonable arguments in
>> > favour of either.
>> Robustness is a rather important/lofty goal especially given the often
>> touted "universal operating system" moniker [0],[1]. Debian has never
>> been specifically about the latest shiny anyway. So, let's be brave
>> and choose the less ubiquitous (today) but more robust overall option.
>
> Does it support accessibility? Just because you quote that we're universal…

4.8 does have some accessibility features and 4.10 brings more (like
orca support for the visually impaired). So, it is not yet up to par
with gnome in terms of accessibility, but then again gnome would still
be an option. Whether switching desktops (or choosing a different on
at install time) would seem too difficult for those that need
accessibility is certainly an open question.

Best wishes,
Mike


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Old 09-11-2012, 10:31 PM
Cyril Brulebois
 
Default Gnome classic mode

Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> (12/09/2012):
> Does it support accessibility? Just because you quote that we're universal…

Last I heard (and if my memory is right, which probably isn't the case, so
please double check), a11y should work more or less, but with xfce >= 4.10.

That's what's in experimental, oops.


Last I heard from Gnome maintainers, a few minutes ago, a11y support is
almost working everywhere in Gnome (painful transition to new at-spi
AFAICT), one of the missing bit is gdm in non-shell mode. My current
directory is ~/hack/gdm-upstream.git, FWIW.

Mraw,
KiBi.
 
Old 09-12-2012, 03:02 AM
Paul Wise
 
Default Gnome classic mode

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Wookey wrote:

> I'd be happy if xfce was the default.

I would be happy if we threw away the concept of a "default desktop"
and left that choice to people who do installs or downloading of live
images.

--
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Old 09-12-2012, 08:15 AM
Sune Vuorela
 
Default Gnome classic mode

On 2012-09-12, Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Wookey wrote:
>
>> I'd be happy if xfce was the default.
>
> I would be happy if we threw away the concept of a "default desktop"
> and left that choice to people who do installs or downloading of live
> images.

yes please.

/Sune


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Old 09-12-2012, 09:28 AM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default Gnome classic mode

Le mercredi 12 septembre 2012 08:15 +0000, Sune Vuorela a crit :
> On 2012-09-12, Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> wrote:
> > I would be happy if we threw away the concept of a "default desktop"
> > and left that choice to people who do installs or downloading of live
> > images.
>
> yes please.

Seconded.

--
.'`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
`-


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Old 09-12-2012, 09:43 AM
Cyril Brulebois
 
Default Gnome classic mode

Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> (12/09/2012):
> I would be happy if we threw away the concept of a "default desktop"
> and left that choice to people who do installs or downloading of live
> images.

[patch needed]

Mraw,
KiBi.
 
Old 09-12-2012, 10:03 AM
Darac Marjal
 
Default Gnome classic mode

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 11:02:28AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Wookey wrote:
>
> > I'd be happy if xfce was the default.
>
> I would be happy if we threw away the concept of a "default desktop"
> and left that choice to people who do installs or downloading of live
> images.

Isn't the whole concept of "default desktop" just a matter of "which
desktop is included on CD1"? Are you proposing that Debian switches to a
series of "CD1s" (Debian Ghome Edition, Debian KDE Edition, Debian XFCE
Edition etc) or that Debian does away with offline installs entirely
("An internet connection is required to install Debian")?
 
Old 09-12-2012, 10:16 AM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default Gnome classic mode

Le mercredi 12 septembre 2012 11:03 +0100, Darac Marjal a crit :
> Isn't the whole concept of "default desktop" just a matter of "which
> desktop is included on CD1"? Are you proposing that Debian switches to a
> series of "CD1s" (Debian Ghome Edition, Debian KDE Edition, Debian XFCE
> Edition etc) or that Debian does away with offline installs entirely
> ("An internet connection is required to install Debian")?

What is on CD1 is really anecdotic, since most people use (or should
use) the netinst.

So the real question is being able to choose the desktop from the
installer instead of having to pre-seed this choice.

--
.'`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
`-


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