Le dimanche 09 septembre 2012 Ã* 22:48 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard a écrit :
> Even if the author calls it GNOME, it seems linking only against GTK+
> libraries and thus usetul also for those (like me) actively avoiding the
> bloat of GNOME libraries.

FYI, the “bloat of GNOME libraries� (libgnome, libgnomecanvas,
libgnomeui, libgnomeprint…) have all been deprecated before the squeeze
release.

With that in mind, your sentence looks like complete nonsense.

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On 12-09-10 at 09:24am, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le dimanche 09 septembre 2012 Ã* 22:48 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard a écrit :
> > Even if the author calls it GNOME, it seems linking only against GTK+
> > libraries and thus usetul also for those (like me) actively avoiding the
> > bloat of GNOME libraries.
>
> FYI, the “bloat of GNOME libraries� (libgnome, libgnomecanvas,
> libgnomeui, libgnomeprint…) have all been deprecated before the squeeze
> release.

On my almost-only-core squeeze development chroot:

root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince-gtk
[...]
0 packages upgraded, 104 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not
upgraded.
Need to get 46.8 MB of archives. After unpacking 123 MB will be used.

and

root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince
[...]
0 packages upgraded, 169 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not
upgraded.
Need to get 76.8 MB of archives. After unpacking 211 MB will be used.


On my almost-only-core sid development chroot:

root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince-gtk
[...]
0 packages upgraded, 143 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not
upgraded.
Need to get 61.8 MB of archives. After unpacking 172 MB will be used.

and

root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince
[...]
0 packages upgraded, 196 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not
upgraded.
Need to get 91.9 MB of archives. After unpacking 283 MB will be used.



> With that in mind, your sentence looks like complete nonsense.

Please elaborate!


- Jonas

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Le lundi 10 septembre 2012 Ã* 10:40 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard a écrit :
> On my almost-only-core squeeze development chroot:
>
> root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince-gtk
> Need to get 46.8 MB of archives. After unpacking 123 MB will be used.
> root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince
> Need to get 76.8 MB of archives. After unpacking 211 MB will be used.

> On my almost-only-core sid development chroot:
>
> root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince-gtk
> Need to get 61.8 MB of archives. After unpacking 172 MB will be used.
> root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince
> Need to get 91.9 MB of archives. After unpacking 283 MB will be used.

Between evince and evince-gtk, there are 3 differences in squeeze:
- GConf → gone away in sid
- GNOME keyring → it is a mere wrapper on a DBus interface
- Nautilus → the dependency is only for the nautilus plugin itself

We could remove evince-gtk and split the Nautilus plugin in a different
package (evince-nautilus), and you would almost not notice any
difference.

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On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 10:42:35PM +0200, Alessio Treglia wrote:
> OK,
>
> so let's go on picking 'gnome-osm-maps'.
>
> Thank you all folks!

No, one package in the archive with a misleading name doesn't mean
we should have more! See also: gnuplot, not related to GNU, and no
doubt many more.


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On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 06:45:42AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Luca Capello <luca@pca.it> [2012.09.09.2029 +0200]:
> > Or, if this is tightened to OSM, 'gnome-osm-maps'.
>
> except the 'm' on "osm" is already a "map", so maybe osm-client.

I like dropping 'gnome', and not doubling-up map, but osm may not
be clear enough to those who aren't intimately involved, how about
openstreetmap-client?


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On 12-09-10 at 10:55am, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le lundi 10 septembre 2012 Ã* 10:40 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard a écrit :
> > On my almost-only-core squeeze development chroot:
> >
> > root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince-gtk
> > Need to get 46.8 MB of archives. After unpacking 123 MB will be used.
> > root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince
> > Need to get 76.8 MB of archives. After unpacking 211 MB will be used.
>
> > On my almost-only-core sid development chroot:
> >
> > root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince-gtk
> > Need to get 61.8 MB of archives. After unpacking 172 MB will be used.
> > root@auryn:/# aptitude install --with-recommends evince
> > Need to get 91.9 MB of archives. After unpacking 283 MB will be used.
>
> Between evince and evince-gtk, there are 3 differences in squeeze:
> - GConf → gone away in sid
> - GNOME keyring → it is a mere wrapper on a DBus interface
> - Nautilus → the dependency is only for the nautilus plugin itself
>
> We could remove evince-gtk and split the Nautilus plugin in a different
> package (evince-nautilus), and you would almost not notice any
> difference.

Yes, or maybe that one dependency could be relaxed to a suggest (actual
GNOME users would have it pulled in by other packages anyway), or I can
simply suppress that one remaining annoying (to me) recommendation left.

I am happy that Evince no longer is bloated.

But this thread really is about naming of a tool, and my argument stand
that it seems useful also outside a GNOME context.

You also do not call it evince vs. evince-gnome :-)

In my opinion it might make sense to use -gnome for a flavor of a
package that has some enhancements specifically for use with GNOME, and
-gtk when using the GTK+ widgets (i.e. optimal for use with GNOME and
XFCE, but less so with KDE (since it uses Qt).

Yes, I am fully aware that Qt apps can look nice together with GTK+
apps, but some are interested not only in the looks but also resource
use, and loading *both* GTK+ and Qt consumes more resources.


- Jonas

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On 10/09/2012 11:26, Jon Dowland wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 10:42:35PM +0200, Alessio Treglia wrote:
>> OK,
>>
>> so let's go on picking 'gnome-osm-maps'.
>>
>> Thank you all folks!
>
> No, one package in the archive with a misleading name doesn't mean
> we should have more! See also: gnuplot, not related to GNU, and no
> doubt many more.
>
>
In the case of gnome-* this is not just "one" package.
gnome-split ? gnome-gpg ? gnome-icon-theme-dlg-neu ?
gnome-shell-timer ? (and dozens of similarly named packages)...

Let's acknowledge that the gnome-* prefix means "to be used mostly in
the GNOME Desktop environment" and not "officially endorsed by GNOME".
Or something like that.

The fact that it uses only gtk may change in the future; I do not know
about that, but if upstream thinks it works with gnome and not gtk, even
if it works with both at the moment, we should not expect a gtk-only
application in the future.

Sincerly,
--
Jean-Christophe Dubacq

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:28:16AM +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 06:45:42AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> > also sprach Luca Capello <luca@pca.it> [2012.09.09.2029 +0200]:
> > > Or, if this is tightened to OSM, 'gnome-osm-maps'.
> >
> > except the 'm' on "osm" is already a "map", so maybe osm-client.
>
> I like dropping 'gnome', and not doubling-up map, but osm may not
> be clear enough to those who aren't intimately involved, how about
> openstreetmap-client?

I really like this! I do like it specifically because I do not think
that package names of user oriented applications need any extra hint to
the toolkit / programming language / desktop environment because it
requires extra knowledge of the user (Hint: You can perfectly run a
Debian (derivative) without knowing about gtk/qt gnome/kde).

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On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:28:16AM +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 06:45:42AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> > also sprach Luca Capello <luca@pca.it> [2012.09.09.2029 +0200]:
> > > Or, if this is tightened to OSM, 'gnome-osm-maps'.
> > except the 'm' on "osm" is already a "map", so maybe osm-client.
> I like dropping 'gnome', and not doubling-up map, but osm may not
> be clear enough to those who aren't intimately involved, how about
> openstreetmap-client?

Aren't you poaching in "openstreetmap"'s namespace now?

Kind regards
Philipp Kern


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also sprach Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> [2012.09.10.2109 +0200]:
> > openstreetmap-client?
>
> Aren't you poaching in "openstreetmap"'s namespace now?

x-openstreetmap-client? Or x-x-openstreetmap-client?

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