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Old 09-05-2012, 09:24 PM
martin f krafft
 
Default greater popularity of Debian on AMD64?

also sprach Patrick Matthäi <pmatthaei@debian.org> [2012.09.05.2231 +0200]:
> AMD also supports Debian (just now with an special point release
> for Wheezy). I do not think that AMD (not the past ATI) is evil
> and such foo should stop here.

Good thing I asked…

> And why hasn't got radeon a good reputation?

I said fglrx — because its binary-only version caused regular
crashes and headaches for Linux users.

--
.'`. martin f. krafft <madduck@d.o> Related projects:
: :' : proud Debian developer http://debiansystem.info
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck http://vcs-pkg.org
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems

"love is a grave mental disease."
-- platon
 
Old 09-05-2012, 09:24 PM
Roger Lynn
 
Default greater popularity of Debian on AMD64?

On 05/09/12 18:10, W. Anderson wrote:
> It is somewhat surprising and a little disappointing that Debian, or any
> other GNU/Linux distribution would be making statements that, in effect,
> give great public support to AMD in regard Linux, when the company has
> for many years been decidedly ambivalent and generally uncooperative
> towards the Linux community, particularly in cooperation with Microsoft
> in their negative attitudes and /_actions _/toward Free/Open Source
> Software communities.

As the only significant competition to Intel in the PC market, AMD need all
the help they can get. The more people that run free software on AMD
equipment, the more likely they are to look favourably upon free software
developers. But, as has already been pointed out, the statement doesn't give
support to AMD anyway.

Roger


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Old 09-05-2012, 09:37 PM
Patrick Matthäi
 
Default greater popularity of Debian on AMD64?

Am 05.09.2012 23:24, schrieb martin f krafft:
> I said fglrx — because its binary-only version caused regular
> crashes and headaches for Linux users.
>

Which is ATM more useful as nvidia prop. ones. And AMD (not the ATI in
the past) is in general interested (and already legaly checked) in
opening fglrx, but it fails with third party foo...
Anyway AMD in general is doing quite much for the OSS community, why it
is IMO fud.

--
/*
Mit freundlichem Gruß / With kind regards,
Patrick Matthäi
GNU/Linux Debian Developer

Blog: http://www.linux-dev.org/
E-Mail: pmatthaei@debian.org
patrick@linux-dev.org
*/
 
Old 09-06-2012, 08:00 AM
Thomas Goirand
 
Default greater popularity of Debian on AMD64?

On 09/06/2012 05:37 AM, Patrick Matthäi wrote:
> Am 05.09.2012 23:24, schrieb martin f krafft:
>
>> I said fglrx — because its binary-only version caused regular
>> crashes and headaches for Linux users.
>>
>>
> Which is ATM more useful as nvidia prop. ones. And AMD (not the ATI in
> the past) is in general interested (and already legaly checked) in
> opening fglrx, but it fails with third party foo...
> Anyway AMD in general is doing quite much for the OSS community, why it
> is IMO fud.
>
Would you then advise for an AMD card over Nvidia?
Is it better supported, and integrate with the standard
desktop screen switcher(s), like xrandr and friends?

Just curious, and willing to know what to buy...

Thomas


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Old 09-06-2012, 08:10 AM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default greater popularity of Debian on AMD64?

Le jeudi 06 septembre 2012 * 16:00 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
> Would you then advise for an AMD card over Nvidia?
> Is it better supported, and integrate with the standard
> desktop screen switcher(s), like xrandr and friends?

Yes AMD is better supported, but for some models the performance is
atrocious. You can’t even run a fullscreen video in a 3D WM if your
hardware is not recent enough.

--
.'`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
`-


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Old 09-06-2012, 08:20 AM
Patrick Matthäi
 
Default greater popularity of Debian on AMD64?

Am 06.09.2012 10:10, schrieb Josselin Mouette:

Le jeudi 06 septembre 2012 * 16:00 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit :

Would you then advise for an AMD card over Nvidia?
Is it better supported, and integrate with the standard
desktop screen switcher(s), like xrandr and friends?


Yes AMD is better supported, but for some models the performance is
atrocious. You can’t even run a fullscreen video in a 3D WM if your
hardware is not recent enough.



A little bit offtopic. I didn't wanted to advertise to buy AMD GPUs
(where the topic itself is about the CPU architecture), just wanted to
argument against random old rants.


Cheers


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Old 09-06-2012, 04:19 PM
Mika Suomalainen
 
Default greater popularity of Debian on AMD64?

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On 05.09.2012 19:36, W. Anderson wrote:
> It is somewhat surprising and a little disappointing that Debian,
> or any other GNU/Linux distribution would be making statements
> that, in effect, give great public support to AMD in regard Linux,
> when the company has for many years been decidedly ambivalent and
> generally uncooperative towards the Linux community, particularly
> in cooperation with Microsoft in their negative attitudes and
> /_actions _/toward Free/Open Source Software communities.

AMD64 is only the name of the architecture. It is also used by other
manufacturers and doesn't advertise AMD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amd64

- --
Mika Suomalainen

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Old 09-07-2012, 04:37 PM
Francesca Ciceri
 
Default greater popularity of Debian on AMD64?

Hi Ben,

On Wed, Sep 05, 2012 at 07:17:52PM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>
> I've previously requested that various user-facing references to
> 'i386' and 'amd64' should be changed to the hopefully more
> understandable '32-bit PC' and '64-bit PC', with some success. Please
> could the publicity team try to follow this convention in future
> press/publicity material?

Sure! I've just fixed the web version of DPN accordingly: changes will be
visible in few hours.

Cheers,
Francesca
--
"Nostra patria il mondo intero
e nostra legge la libert
ed un pensiero
ribelle in cor ci sta." P.Gori
 
Old 09-07-2012, 06:46 PM
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
 
Default greater popularity of Debian on AMD64?

On Fri, 07 Sep 2012, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 05, 2012 at 07:17:52PM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > I've previously requested that various user-facing references to
> > 'i386' and 'amd64' should be changed to the hopefully more
> > understandable '32-bit PC' and '64-bit PC', with some success. Please
> > could the publicity team try to follow this convention in future
> > press/publicity material?
>
> Sure! I've just fixed the web version of DPN accordingly: changes will be
> visible in few hours.

If "64-bit PC" is too vague, the alternative designator for the amd64 arch
is the vendor neutral "x86-64". The vendor-neutral designator for all of
i386, i486, i586, i686, amd64 and x32 is "x86" (i.e. it is for both 32-bit
and 64-bit). i286, i186 and 8086 are too old to bother with :-)

AFAIK, "x86-32" is seldom used. "x64", which is the same as "x86-64", is
very rarely used (in fact, I've never seen anyone use it in Linux-centric
communities and workplaces).


AFAIK, the full x86 arch list, with vendor-neutral names is:

(non-vendor-neutral/explanation): vendor neutral
IA32,ix86,i386..i686: x86-32
amd64/EM64T, 64-bit ABI x86-64
32-bit ABI for amd64/EM64T: x32
any of those: x86

Notes:

1. x32 is very different from x86-32. x32 requires the x86-64 instruction
set and register set, and a x86-64 64-bit kernel with x32 support. There
is no non-vendor-neutral name for x32, fortunately :-)

2. A x86-64 processor can run code for any x86 arch/ABI.

3. A recent x86-64 linux kernel, properly configured, is supposed to support
all three arches/ABIs (x32, x86-32 and x86-64) concurrently.

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh


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Old 09-09-2012, 12:16 AM
Russell Coker
 
Default greater popularity of Debian on AMD64?

On Sat, 8 Sep 2012, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> wrote:
> If "64-bit PC" is too vague, the alternative designator for the amd64 arch
> is the vendor neutral "x86-64". The vendor-neutral designator for all of
> i386, i486, i586, i686, amd64 and x32 is "x86" (i.e. it is for both 32-bit
> and 64-bit). i286, i186 and 8086 are too old to bother with :-)

Why should we be vendor-neutral? AMD invented the AMD64 instruction set.

Intel invented the 386 instruction set and we call it i386.

Why be vendor-neutral for things that AMD invents when we aren't vendor-
neutral for things that Intel invents?

--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/


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