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Old 08-17-2012, 01:49 PM
Pau Garcia i Quiles
 
Default Minified javascript files

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> wrote:
> Le vendredi, 17 août 2012 14.03:38, Raphael Hertzog a écrit :
>> Maybe we should fix DFSG #2 to say “The program must include source code
>> for all the files that gets installed in the Debian binary packages [...]“.
>
> With this modification, upstream might then include (distributable) win32
> executables (or whatever else) in their upstream tarballs and have them
> distributed by the Debian mirrors network without us taking a close look at
> them?

The modification to DFSG #2 that Raphaël proposes is indeed not good
but I'd say this one would clear the issues:

"The program ust include source code for all the files that are used
in building the Debian binary packages"

Which means:
- If upstream is including jquery.min.js but I'm not using it because
I'm using libjs-jquery, I don't need to repack the source tarball
- If upstream is including a a Win32 DLL but I'm not using it for
anything, I don't need to repack the source tarball
etc

--
Pau Garcia i Quiles
http://www.elpauer.org
(Due to my workload, I may need 10 days to answer)


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Old 08-17-2012, 05:19 PM
Vincent Bernat
 
Default Minified javascript files

❦ 17 août 2012 09:39 CEST, Jakub Wilk <jwilk@debian.org>*:

>> 1. The license allows redistribution and modification of the
>> minified version without having the sources. Therefore, we are only
>> dealing with DFSG here.
>
> While jQuery license is permissive, it does impose certain
> conditions[0] on distributors. In my experience, upstreams often fail
> to fulfil these requirements.

Unmodified minified versions (downloaded from the website or from a CDN)
keeps the appropriate copyright notice. Minifiers also keep the first
comment which happens to be the license block, unless instructed
otherwise.

> [0] “The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be
> included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.”

That's true that the permission notice is not included in the copy. But,
this is also the case for the version provided by jQuery and for the
version we provide ourselves in libjs-jquery.
--
die_if_kernel("Kernel gets FloatingPenguinUnit disabled trap", regs);
2.2.16 /usr/src/linux/arch/sparc/kernel/traps.c
 
Old 08-17-2012, 06:16 PM
Jonas Smedegaard
 
Default Minified javascript files

On 12-08-17 at 07:19pm, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> ❦ 17 août 2012 09:39 CEST, Jakub Wilk <jwilk@debian.org>*:

> > [0] “The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be
> > included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.”
>
> That's true that the permission notice is not included in the copy. But,
> this is also the case for the version provided by jQuery and for the
> version we provide ourselves in libjs-jquery.

What jQuery does is less relevant: copyright holder need no license.

What we do[0] in libjs-jquery is to include the permission notice in
debian/copyright - i.e. included in both source and binary package even
if not embedded into the file itself.


- Jonas


[0] if we don't it is a bug.

--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

[x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
 
Old 08-17-2012, 07:50 PM
Sam Morris
 
Default Minified javascript files

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 16:43:51 +0600, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 12:03:23PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>> > So yes, we have the problem for precompiled windows DLLs in a source
>> > package.
>>
>> Interesting, that issue seems rather common. Maybe a lintian check
>> could alarm packagers of this?
> http://lintian.debian.org/tags/source-contains-prebuilt-windows-
binary.html

This includes:

tcltrf (source)
* win/msvcrt.dll

This is part of Windows. I don't expect Debian has been granted
permission to distribute it.

I wonder how many of these DLLs and EXEs link together code licensed
under the GPL with versions of the Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime that does
not ship with Windows (and hence qualify for the 'major parts of the
operating system' exception)?

i686-w64-mingw32-objdump -p foo.dll | grep 'DLL Name' will output a
list of dependant DLLs. The bad ones to look for match at least msvc[pr]
[0-9]+.dll or mfc[0-9]+.dll (case-insensitively). I'd do this myself,
but I don't have the hard drive space nor the bandwidth here, sorry.

Regards,

--
Sam Morris


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Old 08-17-2012, 08:21 PM
Raphael Hertzog
 
Default Minified javascript files

Hi,

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012, Luca Falavigna wrote:
> 2012/8/17 Bernd Zeimetz <bernd@bzed.de>:
> > But it usually does and also results in a source tarball which is
> > missing essential pieces of the software, so people who download it for
> > non-Debian usage will fail to run the shipped source just because we
> > removed an otherwise free piece of software.
>
> This does not make sense if the removed pieces are useless, as the
> core of this discussion is about.

They are not useless if you take the pristine source which is the
situation that was described by Bernd. When we remove files we often have
to do supplementary modifications (debian/patches/ or add symlink at the
proper place) to get the software to work again... for example changing
the path where the libraries are expected to be found.

> I also don't see the point of providing dozens of convenience copies
> of the very same third-party software bundled with every single pet
> package.

The point is that they do mostly no harm and that saving those few
kilobytes cost human time. Our scarcest resource is human time...

> If a software really needs a third-party software, just warn
> in $buildsystem_of_choice and in INSTALL file.
> Upstream should be really taugth not to reinventing the wheel again
> and again and again...

Unfortunately Debian is not the only downstream of our upstream authors.
While we can try to suggest improvements, we can't always convince them.

That's a reality that we have to live with.

Cheers,
--
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer

Get the Debian Administrator's Handbook:
→ http://debian-handbook.info/get/


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Old 08-17-2012, 08:35 PM
Pau Garcia i Quiles
 
Default Minified javascript files

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 9:50 PM, Sam Morris <sam@robots.org.uk> wrote:

>>> > So yes, we have the problem for precompiled windows DLLs in a source
>>> > package.
>>>
>>> Interesting, that issue seems rather common. Maybe a lintian check
>>> could alarm packagers of this?
>> http://lintian.debian.org/tags/source-contains-prebuilt-windows-
> binary.html
>
> This includes:
>
> tcltrf (source)
> * win/msvcrt.dll
>
> This is part of Windows. I don't expect Debian has been granted
> permission to distribute it.

Are you sure it's not wine's?

http://source.winehq.org/WineAPI/msvcrt.html

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Pau Garcia i Quiles
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(Due to my workload, I may need 10 days to answer)


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Old 08-17-2012, 08:41 PM
Sam Morris
 
Default Minified javascript files

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 22:35:07 +0200, Pau Garcia i Quiles wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 9:50 PM, Sam Morris <sam@robots.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>>> > So yes, we have the problem for precompiled windows DLLs in a
>>>> > source package.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting, that issue seems rather common. Maybe a lintian check
>>>> could alarm packagers of this?
>>> http://lintian.debian.org/tags/source-contains-prebuilt-windows-
>> binary.html
>>
>> This includes:
>>
>> tcltrf (source)
>> * win/msvcrt.dll
>>
>> This is part of Windows. I don't expect Debian has been granted
>> permission to distribute it.
>
> Are you sure it's not wine's?
>
> http://source.winehq.org/WineAPI/msvcrt.html

Doesn't look like it:

$ strings -e l win/msvcrt.dll
...
VS_VERSION_INFO
StringFileInfo
040904B0
CompanyName
Microsoft Corporation
FileDescription
Microsoft (R) C Runtime Library
FileVersion
5.00.7128
InternalName
MSVCRT.DLL
LegalCopyright
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp. 1981-1997
OriginalFilename
MSVCRT.DLL
ProductName
Microsoft (R) Visual C++
ProductVersion
5.00.7128
VarFileInfo
Translation

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Sam Morris


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Old 08-17-2012, 08:44 PM
Jakub Wilk
 
Default Minified javascript files

* Pau Garcia i Quiles <pgquiles@elpauer.org>, 2012-08-17, 22:35:

http://lintian.debian.org/tags/source-contains-prebuilt-windows-binary.html

This includes:

tcltrf (source)
* win/msvcrt.dll

This is part of Windows. I don't expect Debian has been granted
permission to distribute it.


Are you sure it's not wine's?


$ strings -e l win/msvcrt.dll | grep ^Copyright
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp. 1981-1997

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Jakub Wilk


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Old 08-17-2012, 10:48 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Minified javascript files

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 07:50:39PM +0000, Sam Morris wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 16:43:51 +0600, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 12:03:23PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> >> > So yes, we have the problem for precompiled windows DLLs in a source
> >> > package.
> >>
> >> Interesting, that issue seems rather common. Maybe a lintian check
> >> could alarm packagers of this?
> > http://lintian.debian.org/tags/source-contains-prebuilt-windows-
> binary.html
>
> This includes:
>
> tcltrf (source)
> * win/msvcrt.dll
>
> This is part of Windows. I don't expect Debian has been granted
> permission to distribute it.

It's the run-time library for Microsoft Visual C++ and is, as I
recall, distributable along with applications that are built using
that compiler. In fact, it is *recommended* to distribute it with
applications. However, various applications bundled with Windows also
need it, so in practice you can get away without doing this if you're
sure your application doesn't depend on any newer features.

Now, distributing it *separately* from any application or other
library built with that compiler may well be copyright infringement.
But it's a long time since I had to think about this and actually
read the licence. Anyway, I see no point in distributing the
library with source, since whatever compiler you use to build it
should come with the appropriate run-time library.

> I wonder how many of these DLLs and EXEs link together code licensed
> under the GPL with versions of the Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime that does
> not ship with Windows (and hence qualify for the 'major parts of the
> operating system' exception)?

I don't believe any licence is required for dynamically linking some
program to a library that implements a standard interface that the
program was already written for.

Anyway, GPLv3 explicitly exempts run-time libraries from source
requirements (clause 1 paragraph 3).

Ben.

> i686-w64-mingw32-objdump -p foo.dll | grep 'DLL Name' will output a
> list of dependant DLLs. The bad ones to look for match at least msvc[pr]
> [0-9]+.dll or mfc[0-9]+.dll (case-insensitively). I'd do this myself,
> but I don't have the hard drive space nor the bandwidth here, sorry.

--
Ben Hutchings
We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking.
- Albert Camus


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Old 08-18-2012, 01:35 AM
Charles Plessy
 
Default Minified javascript files

Le Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 01:19:05PM +0800, Thomas Goirand a crit :
> On 08/17/2012 01:24 AM, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> > 3. Repacking the original tarball just to remove those files is extra
> > work.
> >
> Yeah, just annoying everyone for a minified jquery in upstream
> tarball is, to me, a bit too extreme to my taste as well, as we all know
> where it's coming from, and even it would be possible to check that
> its hash. However, I do respect this view, and I think you should as well.

Hi all,

I think that it would be great that in addition to respect from bottom to top,
respect also comes from top to bottom, in the form of a written documentation,
that would for instance indicate to what extent we need to reproduce copyright
notices, that would keep a track of why a license is accepted or rejected, etc.

Have a nice week-end,

--
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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