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Neil Williams 08-04-2012 04:15 PM

Debian Installer 7.0 Beta1 release
 
On Sat, 4 Aug 2012 12:03:49 +0200
Cyril Brulebois <kibi@debian.org> wrote:

> The Debian Installer team is pleased to announce the first beta
> release of the installer for Debian 7.0 "Wheezy".

It always makes the release seem closer when there's a beta of d-i to
play with.
:-)

Thanks for getting this working.

> Feedback for this release
> =========================
>
> We need your help to find bugs and further improve the installer,
> so please try it. Installer CDs, other media and everything else
> you will need are available at our web site.

I tried in a standard VM (Debian package from sid) with a complete
default netinst i386 install. The installer worked flawlessly but
GNOME3 had a problem:

"GNOME3 Failed to Load
Unfortunately GNOME3 failed to start properly and started in the
fallback mode.

This most likely means your system (graphics hardware or driver) is not
capable of delivering the full GNOME 3 experience."

That's going to make testing Wheezy CD images annoying. Anyone else see
this problem? I tried logging in under GNOME and GNOME Classic - the
warning didn't show again but the UI didn't show any visible change, it
appears that only fallback/classic is available. Can someone using
GNOME3 in Wheezy verify that this is expected behaviour?

So the beta of d-i looks good - more testing to follow.

--


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/

Ben Hutchings 08-04-2012 05:28 PM

Debian Installer 7.0 Beta1 release
 
On Sat, 2012-08-04 at 17:15 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
[...]
> I tried in a standard VM (Debian package from sid) with a complete
> default netinst i386 install. The installer worked flawlessly but
> GNOME3 had a problem:
>
> "GNOME3 Failed to Load
> Unfortunately GNOME3 failed to start properly and started in the
> fallback mode.
>
> This most likely means your system (graphics hardware or driver) is not
> capable of delivering the full GNOME 3 experience."
>
> That's going to make testing Wheezy CD images annoying. Anyone else see
> this problem? I tried logging in under GNOME and GNOME Classic - the
> warning didn't show again but the UI didn't show any visible change, it
> appears that only fallback/classic is available. Can someone using
> GNOME3 in Wheezy verify that this is expected behaviour?

This is expected in the absence of 3D acceleration, which is not yet
supported in qemu so far as I know. VirtualBox is supposed to support
it, but a standard installation presumably won't pull in the necessary
paravirtual drivers in the guest.

Ben.

> So the beta of d-i looks good - more testing to follow.
>

--
Ben Hutchings
Experience is directly proportional to the value of equipment destroyed.
- Carolyn Scheppner

Josselin Mouette 08-04-2012 06:16 PM

Debian Installer 7.0 Beta1 release
 
Le samedi 04 aoĂ»t 2012 Ă* 18:28 +0100, Ben Hutchings a Ă©crit :
> This is expected in the absence of 3D acceleration, which is not yet
> supported in qemu so far as I know. VirtualBox is supposed to support
> it, but a standard installation presumably won't pull in the necessary
> paravirtual drivers in the guest.

At least with squeeze, this used to work, so I don’t see why it wouldn’t
anymore.

However I don’t know whether the vbox paravirtualized drivers are
whitelisted in gnome-session-check-accelerated.

--
.'`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
`-


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Cyril Brulebois 08-04-2012 06:41 PM

Debian Installer 7.0 Beta1 release
 
Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> (04/08/2012):
> On Sat, 2012-08-04 at 17:15 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> [...]
> > I tried in a standard VM (Debian package from sid) with a complete
> > default netinst i386 install. The installer worked flawlessly but
> > GNOME3 had a problem:
> >
> > "GNOME3 Failed to Load
> > Unfortunately GNOME3 failed to start properly and started in the
> > fallback mode.
> >
> > This most likely means your system (graphics hardware or driver) is not
> > capable of delivering the full GNOME 3 experience."
> >
> > That's going to make testing Wheezy CD images annoying. Anyone else see
> > this problem? I tried logging in under GNOME and GNOME Classic - the
> > warning didn't show again but the UI didn't show any visible change, it
> > appears that only fallback/classic is available. Can someone using
> > GNOME3 in Wheezy verify that this is expected behaviour?
>
> This is expected in the absence of 3D acceleration, which is not yet
> supported in qemu so far as I know. VirtualBox is supposed to support
> it, but a standard installation presumably won't pull in the necessary
> paravirtual drivers in the guest.

A virtualbox host environment would be detected automatically, and the
following packages would get installed in that case:
virtualbox-guest-dkms
virtualbox-guest-utils
virtualbox-guest-x11
virtualbox-ose-guest-x11

If one enabled “3D acceleration” in the VM config, Gnome 3 shows up in
normal mode; if one didn't, it shows up in fallback mode (one can see
Gallium llvmpipe as graphic driver in the gnome system properties,
instead of Chromium).

Mraw,
KiBi.

Ben Hutchings 08-04-2012 06:41 PM

Debian Installer 7.0 Beta1 release
 
On Sat, 2012-08-04 at 20:16 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le samedi 04 aoĂ»t 2012 Ă* 18:28 +0100, Ben Hutchings a Ă©crit :
> > This is expected in the absence of 3D acceleration, which is not yet
> > supported in qemu so far as I know. VirtualBox is supposed to support
> > it, but a standard installation presumably won't pull in the necessary
> > paravirtual drivers in the guest.
>
> At least with squeeze, this used to work, so I don’t see why it wouldn’t
> anymore.

Cyril Brulebois says that they are automatically installed in a standard
installation under VBox.

> However I don’t know whether the vbox paravirtualized drivers are
> whitelisted in gnome-session-check-accelerated.

Nor I; I have never used VBox myself.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Experience is directly proportional to the value of equipment destroyed.
- Carolyn Scheppner

Bernd Zeimetz 08-04-2012 09:45 PM

Debian Installer 7.0 Beta1 release
 
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Hash: SHA256

On 08/04/2012 07:28 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-08-04 at 17:15 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
>> That's going to make testing Wheezy CD images annoying. Anyone else see
>> this problem? I tried logging in under GNOME and GNOME Classic - the
>> warning didn't show again but the UI didn't show any visible change, it
>> appears that only fallback/classic is available. Can someone using GNOME3
>> in Wheezy verify that this is expected behaviour?
>
> This is expected in the absence of 3D acceleration, which is not yet
> supported in qemu so far as I know. VirtualBox is supposed to support it,
> but a standard installation presumably won't pull in the necessary
> paravirtual drivers in the guest.

So we require 3d acceleration for a default install? I think that is even more
insane than what recent windows versions require. Can we please have a sane
default desktop for people with older hardware? Maybe just chosen in d-i,
depending on the hardware.

- --
Bernd Zeimetz Debian GNU/Linux Developer
http://bzed.de http://www.debian.org
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Paul Wise 08-04-2012 11:28 PM

Debian Installer 7.0 Beta1 release
 
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:

> So we require 3d acceleration for a default install? I think that is even more
> insane than what recent windows versions require. Can we please have a sane
> default desktop for people with older hardware? Maybe just chosen in d-i,
> depending on the hardware.

http://lists.debian.org/20120803190614.GA4520@mraw.org

--
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Ben Hutchings 08-05-2012 12:51 AM

Debian Installer 7.0 Beta1 release
 
On Sat, 2012-08-04 at 23:45 +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> On 08/04/2012 07:28 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > On Sat, 2012-08-04 at 17:15 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> >> That's going to make testing Wheezy CD images annoying. Anyone else see
> >> this problem? I tried logging in under GNOME and GNOME Classic - the
> >> warning didn't show again but the UI didn't show any visible change, it
> >> appears that only fallback/classic is available. Can someone using GNOME3
> >> in Wheezy verify that this is expected behaviour?
> >
> > This is expected in the absence of 3D acceleration, which is not yet
> > supported in qemu so far as I know. VirtualBox is supposed to support it,
> > but a standard installation presumably won't pull in the necessary
> > paravirtual drivers in the guest.
>
> So we require 3d acceleration for a default install?

I think what you'll see without it is a one-time warning. I could be
wrong since I haven't done a fresh installation yet.

> I think that is even more insane than what recent windows versions require.

3D acceleration recommended, but with a fallback mode available? Isn't
that exactly the same?

> Can we please have a sane
> default desktop for people with older hardware? Maybe just chosen in d-i,
> depending on the hardware.

I believe joeysel now selects Xfce as the default desktop.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.

Thomas Goirand 08-05-2012 03:44 AM

Debian Installer 7.0 Beta1 release
 
On 08/05/2012 05:45 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> So we require 3d acceleration for a default install? I think that is
> even more
> insane than what recent windows versions require. Can we please have a
> sane
> default desktop for people with older hardware? Maybe just chosen in d-i,
> depending on the hardware.
>
GNOME3 defaults are indeed insane, but nobody forces you to use GNOME3.
Also, Debian isn't at fault, we aren't the upstream for GNOME3, we just
happen
to support it.

The only thing I don't like is that d-i (or should I say tasksel?) hides
which
desktop will be installed when you select "Graphical environment". IMO, a
sane default would be something like: "Graphical environment using
${whatever} desktop". Has this been considered? Or has this changed
already since last time I tried?

Thomas


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Stefano Zacchiroli 08-05-2012 08:32 AM

Debian Installer 7.0 Beta1 release
 
[ mail-followup-to: -publicity ]

On Sat, Aug 04, 2012 at 12:03:49PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> The Debian Installer team is pleased to announce the first beta
> release of the installer for Debian 7.0 "Wheezy".

Great!

> Feedback for this release
> =========================
>
> We need your help to find bugs and further improve the installer,
> so please try it. Installer CDs, other media and everything else
> you will need are available at our web site.

Given that we're targeting users with this kind of request for help,
it'd be wise to also send out a press release / -news item, because we
get to a larger user public via those channels. Dear press/publicity
team, is any kind soul available to draft a press release to that end?
(everybody is willing to help joining -publicity, of course!)

Cheers.

PS yes, I've seen that this beta release is a draft item for the next
DPN issue, but a dedicated press release is still warranted, imho
--
Stefano Zacchiroli . . . . . . . zack@upsilon.cc . . . . o . . . o . o
Maître de conférences . . . . . http://upsilon.cc/zack . . . o . . . o o
Debian Project Leader . . . . . . @zack on identi.ca . . o o o . . . o .
« the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club »


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