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Old 07-18-2012, 12:07 AM
Filipus Klutiero
 
Default Resolution of node/nodejs conflict

On 2012-07-12 14:59, Don Armstrong wrote:

=== Resolution ===
The Technical Committee reaffirms the importance of preventing namespace
collisions for programs in the distribution, while recognizing that
compatibility with upstreams and with previous Debian releases is also
important and that sometimes an imperfect balance must be struck between
these three goals.

The Committee therefore resolves that:

1. The nodejs package shall be changed to provide /usr/bin/nodejs, not
/usr/bin/node. The package shall declare a Breaks: relationship with any
packages in Debian that reference /usr/bin/node.
2. The nodejs source package shall also provide a nodejs-legacy binary
package at Priority: extra that contains /usr/bin/node as a symlink to
/usr/bin/nodejs. No package in the archive may depend on or recommend
the nodejs-legacy package, which is provided solely for upstream
compatibility. This package shall also declare a Conflicts: relationship
with the node package.
3. The node source package shall rename its binary to /usr/sbin/ax25-node,
and its binary package to ax25-node.
4. The node source package shall continue to build a transitional 'node'
binary package for compatibility with deployed Debian installations,
which provides /usr/sbin/node as a symlink to /usr/sbin/ax25-node. This
package shall declare a reciprocal Conflicts: relationship with the
nodejs-legacy package. Other packages may reference the 'node' package
as a dependency or recommendation, but are encouraged to transition to
'ax25-node'.
5. The maintainers of these packages are required to implement the above
changes immediately in unstable. Failing that, the Technical Committee
reserves the right to NMU to implement these changes.
6. Once the above changes are implemented, the packages shall be considered
suitable for release with respect to the Debian policy on conflicting
packages.

=== End Resolution ===

Please seehttp://bugs.debian.org/614907 for the background and discussion.


Don Armstrong



Thank you, but I would appreciate if debian-devel-announce would stay
dedicated to important announcements which may be useful for a wide
range of developers. Messages which can be addressed to those interested
and are only of marginal use for others can be sent to debian-devel instead.



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Old 07-18-2012, 12:19 AM
Arno Töll
 
Default Resolution of node/nodejs conflict

Hi,

On 18.07.2012 02:07, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> Thank you, but I would appreciate if debian-devel-announce would stay
> dedicated to important announcements which may be useful for a wide
> range of developers.

While you are right in general I beg to disagree that tech-ctte
resolutions do affect a small notion of developers only. Thus, I
appreciate they are sent to d-d-a now. While the node naming conflict
may not affect too many developer directly, implications resolved by any
tech-ctte decision do per constitutional powers granted to that
institution.


--
with kind regards,
Arno Töll
IRC: daemonkeeper on Freenode/OFTC
GnuPG Key-ID: 0x9D80F36D
 
Old 07-18-2012, 08:11 AM
Stefano Zacchiroli
 
Default Resolution of node/nodejs conflict

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 08:07:15PM -0400, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> Thank you, but I would appreciate if debian-devel-announce would
> stay dedicated to important announcements which may be useful for a
> wide range of developers.

tech-ctte resolutions do fit that bill. The tech-ctte is the highest
dispute resolution body we have in Debian, and I think their doings
deserve this level of awareness in the project. (And given the tech-ctte
has chosen an appropriate "tag" in the subject line, they are also easy
to filter out if you personally are not interested in them.)

Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} . o .
Maître de conférences ...... http://upsilon.cc/zack ...... . . o
Debian Project Leader ....... @zack on identi.ca ....... o o o
« the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club »
 
Old 07-18-2012, 08:34 AM
Jonas Smedegaard
 
Default Resolution of node/nodejs conflict

On 12-07-17 at 08:07pm, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> On 2012-07-12 14:59, Don Armstrong wrote:
> >=== Resolution ===
> >The Technical Committee reaffirms the importance of preventing namespace
> >collisions for programs in the distribution, while recognizing that
> >compatibility with upstreams and with previous Debian releases is also
> >important and that sometimes an imperfect balance must be struck between
> >these three goals.

[details snipped]

> Thank you, but I would appreciate if debian-devel-announce would stay
> dedicated to important announcements which may be useful for a wide
> range of developers. Messages which can be addressed to those
> interested and are only of marginal use for others can be sent to
> debian-devel instead.

We the directly involved received the message more directly too.

I believe the reason for targeting -announce as well was the initial
part about a more general principle, preserved in my quoting above,
which IMO does relate to all Debian developers in general.


- Jonas

--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

[x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
 
Old 07-18-2012, 05:57 PM
Russ Allbery
 
Default Resolution of node/nodejs conflict

Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> writes:

> I believe the reason for targeting -announce as well was the initial
> part about a more general principle, preserved in my quoting above,
> which IMO does relate to all Debian developers in general.

Well, more generally, I think we should announce all formal decisions
somewhere. If people feel like they're noise on debian-devel-announce,
I'm delighted, since that means we're making enough decisions for it to be
noticable traffic. Part of the goal, from my perspective, for sending
out a notice of decisions for a while is to make people aware that the
tech-ctte is here and is making decisions.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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Old 07-18-2012, 10:17 PM
Don Armstrong
 
Default Resolution of node/nodejs conflict

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> Thank you, but I would appreciate if debian-devel-announce would
> stay dedicated to important announcements which may be useful for a
> wide range of developers.

Because developers can override CTTE decisions, it's important for the
CTTE to advertise when it has actually made a decision. If you don't
wish to receive them, feel free to filter out messages containing
[CTTE. I will endeavor to include that tag in all further messages I
send to d-d-a announcing CTTE decisions.


Don Armstrong

--
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is
research.
-- Steven Wright

http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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Old 07-21-2012, 08:38 PM
Filipus Klutiero
 
Default Resolution of node/nodejs conflict

Hi Stefano,

Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 08:07:15PM -0400, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> Thank you, but I would appreciate if debian-devel-announce would
> stay dedicated to important announcements which may be useful for a
> wide range of developers.

tech-ctte resolutions do fit that bill. The tech-ctte is the highest
dispute resolution body we have in Debian, and I think their doings
deserve this level of awareness in the project.


although publicity of some resolutions may indeed be useful for a wide
range of developers, I fail to see many who would be interested in the
resolution on node.



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Old 07-21-2012, 08:42 PM
Filipus Klutiero
 
Default Resolution of node/nodejs conflict

Hi Jonas,

Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

On 12-07-17 at 08:07pm, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> On 2012-07-12 14:59, Don Armstrong wrote:
> >=== Resolution ===
> >The Technical Committee reaffirms the importance of preventing namespace
> >collisions for programs in the distribution, while recognizing that
> >compatibility with upstreams and with previous Debian releases is also
> >important and that sometimes an imperfect balance must be struck between
> >these three goals.

[details snipped]

> Thank you, but I would appreciate if debian-devel-announce would stay
> dedicated to important announcements which may be useful for a wide
> range of developers. Messages which can be addressed to those
> interested and are only of marginal use for others can be sent to
> debian-devel instead.

We the directly involved received the message more directly too.

I believe the reason for targeting -announce as well was the initial
part about a more general principle, preserved in my quoting above,
which IMO does relate to all Debian developers in general.


I read the resolution as circumstancial, and thought the preamble had
been written to respect tradition. If the decision is meant to be a
precedent and that explains the choice of -announce, it would be good to
phrase the principle concretely and have confirmation from the committee
that this was intended.



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Old 07-21-2012, 08:51 PM
Steve Langasek
 
Default Resolution of node/nodejs conflict

On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 04:38:21PM -0400, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> >On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 08:07:15PM -0400, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> >> Thank you, but I would appreciate if debian-devel-announce would
> >> stay dedicated to important announcements which may be useful for a
> >> wide range of developers.

> >tech-ctte resolutions do fit that bill. The tech-ctte is the highest
> >dispute resolution body we have in Debian, and I think their doings
> >deserve this level of awareness in the project.

> although publicity of some resolutions may indeed be useful for a
> wide range of developers, I fail to see many who would be interested
> in the resolution on node.

Feel free to filter out mails sent by members of the technical committee to
debian-devel-announce; I will be happy to reciprocate.

--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org
 
Old 07-21-2012, 08:52 PM
Filipus Klutiero
 
Default Resolution of node/nodejs conflict

Hi Don,

Don Armstrong wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> Thank you, but I would appreciate if debian-devel-announce would
> stay dedicated to important announcements which may be useful for a
> wide range of developers.

Because developers can override CTTE decisions, it's important for the
CTTE to advertise when it has actually made a decision.


Developers by GR can override all decisions, so I don't think this is
more true for CTTE decisions than for any other decision, but the
problem is not advertising the decision per se, it is the way which was
used in #614907 to advertise it.


[...]


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