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Old 07-17-2012, 05:35 PM
Russ Allbery
 
Default tech-ctte help needed: main dependencies on non-free/contrib

Hello all,

Could someone who has the time and the tools available do a check on all
the dependencies in main for dependencies on non-free/contrib? This
information would be very helpful in evaluating tech-ctte bug #681419. In
particular:

* How many total dependencies are there? (We're only interested in
Depends or Recommends for this purpose, not Suggests.)

* Are all of those dependencies alternative dependencies of the form:

Depends: foo | foo-nonfree

or are there other cases? A list of the other cases would be very
interesting. (Some may just be bugs, but we may not have thought of
some other possible pattern.)

* Are any of these dependencies versioned? One of the things we're
evaluating is whether it would always be possible to replace those
dependencies with a straight dependency on foo, with foo-nonfree
Providing foo.

It would also be quite interesting, although much harder to determine,
whether there are any scenarios where such a dependency would result in a
non-free package being installed by default. If, for example, there's a
dependency on foo | foo-nonfree and some packages conflict with foo but
not with foo-nonfree such that a dependency resolver may pull in
foo-nonfree in preference.

Thanks!

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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Old 07-17-2012, 06:03 PM
Niels Thykier
 
Default tech-ctte help needed: main dependencies on non-free/contrib

On 2012-07-17 19:35, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> [...]
>
> It would also be quite interesting, although much harder to determine,
> whether there are any scenarios where such a dependency would result in a
> non-free package being installed by default. If, for example, there's a
> dependency on foo | foo-nonfree and some packages conflict with foo but
> not with foo-nonfree such that a dependency resolver may pull in
> foo-nonfree in preference.
>
> Thanks!
>


Hi,

I suspect installability checking of all packages should find them if
they are there. One run with non-free+contrib and one without - the
"newly" uninstallable between the two runs should be set you are looking
for. It does not catch issues like "foo-nonfree | foo", but they would
be caught by your other query.

~Niels


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Old 07-17-2012, 06:13 PM
Ian Jackson
 
Default tech-ctte help needed: main dependencies on non-free/contrib

Niels Thykier writes ("Re: tech-ctte help needed: main dependencies on non-free/contrib"):
> I suspect installability checking of all packages should find them if
> they are there. One run with non-free+contrib and one without - the
> "newly" uninstallable between the two runs should be set you are looking
> for. It does not catch issues like "foo-nonfree | foo", but they would
> be caught by your other query.

Unless all the package managers always prefer to avoid installing from
non-free unless there is no other way to satisfy the user's request,
this is not a sufficient test.

In practice I think if we had installability bugs of the form you
suggest, in testing, people would notice. Since those packages would
not be installable in testing at all.

Ian.


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Old 07-17-2012, 06:14 PM
Jakub Wilk
 
Default tech-ctte help needed: main dependencies on non-free/contrib

* Niels Thykier <niels@thykier.net>, 2012-07-17, 20:03:
It would also be quite interesting, although much harder to determine,
whether there are any scenarios where such a dependency would result
in a non-free package being installed by default. If, for example,
there's a dependency on foo | foo-nonfree and some packages conflict
with foo but not with foo-nonfree such that a dependency resolver may
pull in foo-nonfree in preference.

[...]
I suspect installability checking of all packages should find them if
they are there. One run with non-free+contrib and one without - the
"newly" uninstallable between the two runs should be set you are
looking for.


I played with dose-debcheck a bit. It turns out that (at least for i386)
every currently uninstallable package in main is also uninstallable
within main+contrib+non-free.


It does not catch issues like "foo-nonfree | foo", but they would be
caught by your other query.


That's right.

--
Jakub Wilk


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Old 07-17-2012, 07:04 PM
"Eugene V. Lyubimkin"
 
Default tech-ctte help needed: main dependencies on non-free/contrib

Hi,

On 2012-07-17 10:35, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Could someone who has the time and the tools available do a check on all
> the dependencies in main for dependencies on non-free/contrib? This
> information would be very helpful in evaluating tech-ctte bug #681419. In
> particular: [...]

I wrote a small program to list them, please find the (hopefully
awk'able and hopefully correct) output in attachment.

--
Eugene V. Lyubimkin aka JackYF, JID: jackyf.devel(maildog)gmail.com
C++ GNU/Linux developer, Debian Developer
avahi-ui-utils: Recommends: 'vnc-viewer' [choice 3: tightvnc-java from contrib]
avahi-ui-utils: Recommends: 'vnc-viewer' [choice 4: vnc-java from contrib]
capi4hylafax: Recommends: 'isdnactivecards' [choice 1: isdnactivecards from contrib]
cl-sql: Recommends: 'cl-sql-backend' [choice 8: cl-sql-oracle from contrib]
cl-sql-uffi: Recommends: 'cl-sql-backend' [choice 8: cl-sql-oracle from contrib]
clam-networkeditor: Depends: 'libgl1-mesa-glx | libgl1 | fglrx-glx' [choice 3: fglrx-glx from non-free]
conky: Depends: 'conky-std | conky-cli | conky-all' [choice 3: conky-all from contrib]
deluge-common: Depends: 'geoip-database' [choice 2: geoip-database-contrib from contrib]
deutex: Recommends: 'doom-wad' [choice 1: doom-wad-shareware from non-free]
dsc-statistics-collector: Depends: 'geoip-database' [choice 2: geoip-database-contrib from contrib]
festival: Recommends: 'festvox-kallpc16k | festival-voice' [choice 12: festvox-don from contrib]
festival: Recommends: 'festvox-kallpc16k | festival-voice' [choice 13: festvox-en1 from contrib]
festival: Recommends: 'festvox-kallpc16k | festival-voice' [choice 14: festvox-us1 from contrib]
festival: Recommends: 'festvox-kallpc16k | festival-voice' [choice 15: festvox-us2 from contrib]
festival: Recommends: 'festvox-kallpc16k | festival-voice' [choice 16: festvox-us3 from contrib]
festival: Recommends: 'festvox-kallpc16k | festival-voice' [choice 17: festvox-rablpc16k from contrib]
festival: Recommends: 'festvox-kallpc16k | festival-voice' [choice 18: festvox-rablpc8k from contrib]
freeciv-client-sdl: Depends: 'fonts-ipafont-gothic | fonts-japanese-gothic | ttf-sazanami-gothic' [choice 5: fonts-ipafont-nonfree-jisx0208 from non-free]
fuse-emulator-common: Depends: 'opense-basic | spectrum-roms' [choice 2: spectrum-roms from non-free]
gdm3: Depends: 'gnome-session | x-session-manager | x-window-manager | x-terminal-emulator' [choice 54: amiwm from non-free]
gjiten: Recommends: 'fonts-ipafont-mincho | fonts-japanese-mincho' [choice 4: fonts-ipafont-nonfree-jisx0208 from non-free]
glchess: Depends: 'gnuchess | sjeng | crafty | phalanx | glaurung | stockfish | hoichess | bbchess | fruit | toga2 | fairymax' [choice 3: crafty from non-free]
globs: Depends: 'libgl1-mesa-glx | libgl1 | fglrx-glx' [choice 3: fglrx-glx from non-free]
gscan2pdf: Recommends: 'cuneiform' [choice 1: cuneiform from non-free]
kanatest: Recommends: 'ttf-kochi-mincho | ttf-kochi-gothic' [choice 2: ttf-kochi-mincho-naga10 from non-free]
kanatest: Recommends: 'ttf-kochi-mincho | ttf-kochi-gothic' [choice 4: ttf-kochi-gothic-naga10 from non-free]
kanjipad: Recommends: 'ttf-kochi-gothic | ttf-kochi-mincho' [choice 2: ttf-kochi-gothic-naga10 from non-free]
kanjipad: Recommends: 'ttf-kochi-gothic | ttf-kochi-mincho' [choice 4: ttf-kochi-mincho-naga10 from non-free]
kdm: Recommends: 'kde-workspace | x-session-manager | x-window-manager' [choice 55: amiwm from non-free]
kiten: Depends: 'fonts-vlgothic | fonts-japanese-gothic' [choice 5: fonts-ipafont-nonfree-jisx0208 from non-free]
ldm-server: Recommends: 'gnome-session | x-session-manager | x-window-manager' [choice 54: amiwm from non-free]
libclam-qtmonitors1.4: Depends: 'libgl1-mesa-glx | libgl1 | fglrx-glx' [choice 3: fglrx-glx from non-free]
libdeal.ii-dev: Depends: 'libsuitesparse-dev' [choice 2: libsuitesparse-metis-dev from contrib]
libdolfin1.0-dev: Depends: 'libsuitesparse-dev' [choice 2: libsuitesparse-metis-dev from contrib]
libelmer-dev: Depends: 'libsuitesparse-dev' [choice 2: libsuitesparse-metis-dev from contrib]
libgeoip1: Recommends: 'geoip-database' [choice 2: geoip-database-contrib from contrib]
libglw1-mesa-dev: Depends: 'lesstif2-dev | libmotif-dev' [choice 2: libmotif-dev from non-free]
liblpsolve55-dev: Depends: 'libsuitesparse-dev' [choice 2: libsuitesparse-metis-dev from contrib]
libpetsc3.2-dev: Depends: 'libsuitesparse-dev' [choice 2: libsuitesparse-metis-dev from contrib]
libphp-jpgraph: Depends: 'ttf-liberation | ttf-mscorefonts-installer' [choice 3: ttf-mscorefonts-installer from contrib]
libreoffice: Recommends: 'ttf-liberation | ttf-mscorefonts-installer' [choice 3: ttf-mscorefonts-installer from contrib]
librheolef-dev: Depends: 'libsuitesparse-dev' [choice 2: libsuitesparse-metis-dev from contrib]
libstarpufft-1.0: Depends: 'libstarpu-1.0' [choice 2: libstarpu-contrib-1.0 from contrib]
libstarpumpi-1.0: Depends: 'libstarpu-1.0' [choice 2: libstarpu-contrib-1.0 from contrib]
ltsp-server-standalone: Depends: 'gnome-session | x-session-manager | x-window-manager' [choice 54: amiwm from non-free]
lxsession: Recommends: 'openbox | x-window-manager' [choice 50: amiwm from non-free]
maximus: Depends: 'metacity | x-window-manager' [choice 50: amiwm from non-free]
ocl-icd-opencl-dev: Depends: 'libopencl1' [choice 2: amd-libopencl1 from non-free]
ocl-icd-opencl-dev: Depends: 'libopencl1' [choice 3: nvidia-libopencl1 from non-free]
ocrfeeder: Depends: 'tesseract-ocr | ocrad | gocr | cuneiform' [choice 4: cuneiform from non-free]
php5-geoip: Recommends: 'geoip-database' [choice 2: geoip-database-contrib from contrib]
prboom: Recommends: 'boom-wad | doom-wad' [choice 3: doom-wad-shareware from non-free]
proftpd-mod-geoip: Depends: 'geoip-database' [choice 2: geoip-database-contrib from contrib]
python-geoip: Depends: 'geoip-database' [choice 2: geoip-database-contrib from contrib]
qbittorrent: Depends: 'geoip-database' [choice 2: geoip-database-contrib from contrib]
root-system-common: Depends: 'ttf-freefont | root-ttf' [choice 4: ttf-root-installer from contrib]
root-system-common: Depends: 'ttf-opensymbol | root-ttf' [choice 3: ttf-root-installer from contrib]
rt4-apache2: Depends: 'libapache2-mod-perl2 (>= 2.0.0) | libapache2-mod-fcgid | libapache2-mod-fastcgi' [choice 3: libapache2-mod-fastcgi from non-free]
rt4-apache2: Recommends: 'libapache2-mod-fastcgi' [choice 1: libapache2-mod-fastcgi from non-free]
rxvt-unicode: Recommends: 'fonts-vlgothic | fonts-japanese-gothic' [choice 5: fonts-ipafont-nonfree-jisx0208 from non-free]
rxvt-unicode-256color: Recommends: 'fonts-vlgothic | fonts-japanese-gothic' [choice 5: fonts-ipafont-nonfree-jisx0208 from non-free]
science-mathematics-dev: Recommends: 'libsuitesparse-dev' [choice 2: libsuitesparse-metis-dev from contrib]
starpu-examples: Depends: 'libstarpu-1.0' [choice 2: libstarpu-contrib-1.0 from contrib]
starpu-examples: Depends: 'libstarpufft-1.0' [choice 2: libstarpu-contribfft-1.0 from contrib]
starpu-examples: Depends: 'libstarpumpi-1.0' [choice 2: libstarpu-contribmpi-1.0 from contrib]
starpu-tools: Depends: 'libstarpu-1.0' [choice 2: libstarpu-contrib-1.0 from contrib]
task-serbian: Recommends: 'opendict-plugins-lingvosoft' [choice 1: opendict-plugins-lingvosoft from contrib]
vavoom: Recommends: 'freedoom | doom-wad | heretic-wad | game-data-packager | boom-wad' [choice 2: doom-wad-shareware from non-free]
vavoom: Recommends: 'freedoom | doom-wad | heretic-wad | game-data-packager | boom-wad' [choice 3: game-data-packager from contrib]
xdvik-ja: Depends: 'fonts-ipafont-mincho | fonts-japanese-mincho' [choice 4: fonts-ipafont-nonfree-jisx0208 from non-free]
xdvik-ja: Depends: 'fonts-ipafont-gothic | fonts-japanese-gothic' [choice 5: fonts-ipafont-nonfree-jisx0208 from non-free]
xinit: Recommends: 'xterm | x-session-manager | x-window-manager | x-terminal-emulator' [choice 55: amiwm from non-free]
xmhtml1-dev: Depends: 'lesstif2-dev | libmotif-dev' [choice 2: libmotif-dev from non-free]
xserver-xorg: Depends: 'xserver-xorg-video-all | xorg-driver-video' [choice 40: xserver-xorg-video-ivtv from contrib]
xserver-xorg: Depends: 'xserver-xorg-video-all | xorg-driver-video' [choice 41: fglrx-driver from non-free]
xserver-xorg: Depends: 'xserver-xorg-video-all | xorg-driver-video' [choice 42: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia from non-free]
xserver-xorg: Depends: 'xserver-xorg-video-all | xorg-driver-video' [choice 43: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia-legacy-173xx from non-free]
yagf: Depends: 'cuneiform | tesseract-ocr' [choice 1: cuneiform from non-free]
yatex: Recommends: 'ptex-bin | ptex-jtex' [choice 2: ptex-jtex from non-free]
 
Old 07-19-2012, 01:51 PM
Ian Jackson
 
Default tech-ctte help needed: main dependencies on non-free/contrib

Eugene V. Lyubimkin writes ("Re: tech-ctte help needed: main dependencies on non-free/contrib"):
> On 2012-07-17 10:35, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Could someone who has the time and the tools available do a check on all
> > the dependencies in main for dependencies on non-free/contrib? This
> > information would be very helpful in evaluating tech-ctte bug #681419. In
> > particular: [...]
>
> I wrote a small program to list them, please find the (hopefully
> awk'able and hopefully correct) output in attachment.

Thanks a lot.

To turn this into an answer to Russ's questions:

> > * How many total dependencies are there? (We're only interested in
> > Depends or Recommends for this purpose, not Suggests.)

79.

> > * Are all of those dependencies alternative dependencies of the form:
> >
> > Depends: foo | foo-nonfree
> >
> > or are there other cases? A list of the other cases would be very
> > interesting. (Some may just be bugs, but we may not have thought of
> > some other possible pattern.)

Reading your Depends as including Recommends, there is also:
Recommends/Depends: virtual-package
where virtual-package is provided both in main and outside, or
Recommends/Depends: something | virtual-package
likewise. This is what you were proposing to change everything to.

In general the non-free packages don't have names that call them out,
so while your pattern says `foo-nonfree' in fact it's more like
`foo | forkle'.

We also have this:
gscan2pdf: Recommends: 'cuneiform' [choice 1: cuneiform from non-free]
which looks like a bug, which I have filed.

And this:
yagf: Depends: 'cuneiform | tesseract-ocr' [choice 1: cuneiform from non-free]
which is also a bug but a less serious one.

So in summary, excepting one clearly buggy package, the pattern you
give, and the pattern you are proposing to make universal, are the
only ones in existence.

> > * Are any of these dependencies versioned? One of the things we're
> > evaluating is whether it would always be possible to replace those
> > dependencies with a straight dependency on foo, with foo-nonfree
> > Providing foo.

No. Only one of the entries in Eugene's list mentions a version
number and then only in an irrelevant limb of the dependency.

Ian.


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Old 07-19-2012, 06:07 PM
Ivo De Decker
 
Default tech-ctte help needed: main dependencies on non-free/contrib

Hi,

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 02:51:14PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> We also have this:
> gscan2pdf: Recommends: 'cuneiform' [choice 1: cuneiform from non-free]
> which looks like a bug, which I have filed.

There's also these:

capi4hylafax: Recommends: 'isdnactivecards' [choice 1: isdnactivecards from contrib]
deutex: Recommends: 'doom-wad' [choice 1: doom-wad-shareware from non-free]
rt4-apache2: Recommends: 'libapache2-mod-fastcgi' [choice 1: libapache2-mod-fastcgi from non-free]
task-serbian: Recommends: 'opendict-plugins-lingvosoft' [choice 1: opendict-plugins-lingvosoft from contrib]

In all these cases, apt-get installs a package from non-free or contrib when
installing a package from main with non-free or contrib enabled. I have filed
bugs for these packages.

> And this:
> yagf: Depends: 'cuneiform | tesseract-ocr' [choice 1: cuneiform from non-free]
> which is also a bug but a less serious one.

Why is this less serious? When you install yagf (with non-free enabled),
apt-get installs cuneiform, which is non-free.

Cheers,

Ivo


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Old 07-19-2012, 06:22 PM
Russ Allbery
 
Default tech-ctte help needed: main dependencies on non-free/contrib

Ivo De Decker <ivo.dedecker@ugent.be> writes:
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 02:51:14PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

>> And this:
>> yagf: Depends: 'cuneiform | tesseract-ocr' [choice 1: cuneiform from non-free]
>> which is also a bug but a less serious one.

> Why is this less serious? When you install yagf (with non-free enabled),
> apt-get installs cuneiform, which is non-free.

It's less serious in that it's possible for the software to work without
non-free packages, which comes closer to satisfying the requirement in
Policy. The trend of opinion in the tech-ctte at the moment, however, is
that it's still a bug if a package in main pulls in a package from
non-free by default when non-free is enabled.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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