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Jean-Christophe Dubacq 07-13-2012 09:54 AM

Fixing the mime horror ini Debian
 
On 13/07/2012 11:13, Norbert Preining wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> can we somehome make $subject a target for the *next* release?
> It is ridiculous that it is in fact completely arbitrary what
> program is used to open files. Currently in my gnome-shell
> pdfs are opened with a file-manager, as well as .txt files, as
> well as anything.
>
> That is when using xdg-open or gnome-open of gvfs-open.
> When I try see, in contrast the funny okular from KDE
> is started, together with these very useful services of KDE.
>
> So maybe someone can explain what are the problems, that these
> things are simply not fixd. Cannot be so complicated, right?

As a comparison point, when I use xdg-open or gnome-open, the Gnome PDF
viewer is launched. When I use see, xpdf is launched (okular not installed).

Sincerly,
--
Jean-Christophe Dubacq

Josselin Mouette 07-13-2012 10:13 AM

Fixing the mime horror ini Debian
 
Hi,

Le vendredi 13 juillet 2012 * 18:13 +0900, Norbert Preining a écrit :
> can we somehome make $subject a target for the *next* release?
> It is ridiculous that it is in fact completely arbitrary what
> program is used to open files. Currently in my gnome-shell
> pdfs are opened with a file-manager, as well as .txt files, as
> well as anything.
>
> That is when using xdg-open or gnome-open of gvfs-open.

The freedesktop MIME system (which applies for GNOME, Xfce and LXDE)
allows to specify defaults for every given MIME type. However, it is
not realistic to agree in Debian as a whole on a set of defaults.

This is why GNOME sets default associations for GNOME sessions: this is
the /etc/gnome/defaults.list file. Therefore the behavior you describe
should not happen in a GNOME session – unless you start it through a
custom .xsession.

That’s for GNOME.


For other environments using the freedesktop MIME system, they can do
the same as we do for GNOME, but their respective maintainers have
decided not to. However, there’s been an addition to the MIME system
that allows to envision a Debian-wide solution: now you can specify
several defaults, and the system will pick the first one available.

So *if* we manage to agree on a list of defaults and on an order in
which they should appear, for each affected MIME type, we could ship
this file system-wide in shared-mime-info.

Note that the GNOME file alone lists no less than 355 MIME types, so
that makes quite some work.


For KDE I’ve been told the MIME system is different so this is yet
another story.

> When I try see, in contrast the funny okular from KDE
> is started, together with these very useful services of KDE.

see is obsolete. Maybe the target for the next release could be to get
rid of it.

Cheers,
--
.'`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
`-


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Per Olofsson 07-13-2012 10:18 AM

Fixing the mime horror ini Debian
 
Hi,

2012-07-13 11:13, Norbert Preining skrev:

Hi everyone,

can we somehome make $subject a target for the*next* release?
It is ridiculous that it is in fact completely arbitrary what
program is used to open files. Currently in my gnome-shell
pdfs are opened with a file-manager, as well as .txt files, as
well as anything.

That is when using xdg-open or gnome-open of gvfs-open.
When I try see, in contrast the funny okular from KDE
is started, together with these very useful services of KDE.

So maybe someone can explain what are the problems, that these
things are simply not fixd. Cannot be so complicated, right?



I think the most viable solution would be to:

1. Rewrite xdg-utils so that it is robust and always works. Instead of
relying on desktop environments, it should do the needed work by itself.
Currently it's something of a hack, especially when running in "generic"
mode. It should probably be written in another language than shell (e.g.
Perl, Python, C). A nicer user interface for the command line wouldn't
hurt either.


2. Make all other packages either use xdg-utils or follow the
freedesktop.org MIME specs.


I'm not planning on doing it myself though.

--
Pelle


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Thibaut Paumard 07-13-2012 10:53 AM

Fixing the mime horror ini Debian
 
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Hash: SHA1

Le 13/07/12 12:13, Josselin Mouette a crit :

> see is obsolete. Maybe the target for the next release could be to
> get rid of it.

Please don't.

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"Bernhard R. Link" 07-13-2012 11:45 AM

Fixing the mime horror ini Debian
 
* Per Olofsson <pelle@dsv.su.se> [120713 12:18]:
> 1. Rewrite xdg-utils so that it is robust and always works.

It you want to make xdg-open useable for everything, please also
add a way to specify the mime type as option. Without that using
it for opening mail attachements or stuff downloaded (i.e. things
that already show a mime type before you open it) is simply
introducing a security bug.

Bernhard R. Link


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George Danchev 07-13-2012 12:26 PM

Fixing the mime horror ini Debian
 
On Friday 13 July 2012 13:45:19 Bernhard R. Link wrote:
> * Per Olofsson <pelle@dsv.su.se> [120713 12:18]:
> > 1. Rewrite xdg-utils so that it is robust and always works.
>
> It you want to make xdg-open useable for everything, please also
> add a way to specify the mime type as option. Without that using
> it for opening mail attachements or stuff downloaded (i.e. things
> that already show a mime type before you open it) is simply
> introducing a security bug.

It appears that this has been done already, at least kfmclient accepts
mimetype as an option. However, for such sensitive use cases, I'd rather skip
the yet another level of indirection of having to second-guess an "opener"
app, being it xdg-open, kfmclient or any other, by mimetype hints, and just
inspect/dissect/open the suspicious thing as I find it most appropriate
depending on the circumstances (available inspection apps, time, etc)

--
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Josselin Mouette 07-13-2012 01:05 PM

Fixing the mime horror ini Debian
 
Le vendredi 13 juillet 2012 * 14:26 +0200, George Danchev a écrit :
> > It you want to make xdg-open useable for everything, please also
> > add a way to specify the mime type as option. Without that using
> > it for opening mail attachements or stuff downloaded (i.e. things
> > that already show a mime type before you open it) is simply
> > introducing a security bug.

It is much better to let xdg-open or what it launches determine the MIME
type by inspecting the contents of the file instead of reading the MIME
type from an email, anyway.

For browsers, there is a list of safe/unsafe MIME types, so inspection
is not required, but I’m not aware of a similar mechanism for email
readers.

> It appears that this has been done already, at least kfmclient accepts
> mimetype as an option. However, for such sensitive use cases, I'd rather skip
> the yet another level of indirection of having to second-guess an "opener"
> app, being it xdg-open, kfmclient or any other, by mimetype hints, and just
> inspect/dissect/open the suspicious thing as I find it most appropriate
> depending on the circumstances (available inspection apps, time, etc)

This is already what e.g. gvfs-open does: the MIME type is determined
through content inspection according to the fd.o MIME specification.

--
.'`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
`-


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Andreas Tille 07-13-2012 02:26 PM

Fixing the mime horror ini Debian
 
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:13:15PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> see is obsolete.

Says who?

Andreas.

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Kurt Roeckx 07-13-2012 03:41 PM

Fixing the mime horror ini Debian
 
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 06:13:43PM +0900, Norbert Preining wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> can we somehome make $subject a target for the *next* release?
> It is ridiculous that it is in fact completely arbitrary what
> program is used to open files. Currently in my gnome-shell
> pdfs are opened with a file-manager, as well as .txt files, as
> well as anything.

pdfs are opened with gimp for me.


Kurt


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Neil McGovern 07-13-2012 04:14 PM

Fixing the mime horror ini Debian
 
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 06:13:43PM +0900, Norbert Preining wrote:
> can we somehome make $subject a target for the *next* release?

Hi,

Please consider making this a release goal when we call for them after
the release.

Thanks,
Neil


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