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Old 07-26-2012, 11:53 PM
Russ Allbery
 
Default RFC: Why are so many debian packages outdated?

Michael Gilbert <mgilbert@debian.org> writes:

> If one sees a package that has not been uploaded in 2 years (or 6 months
> or however long), I think we should make it so that they can feel free
> to liberal NMU it with a 10-day delay. If the maintainer was really
> planning to hold the package back for some reason, they can always
> cancel that (preferably with some kind of note as to why).

Yeah, that seems reasonable. If people use it unreasonably, we can always
deal with that.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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Old 07-27-2012, 04:55 AM
Miles Bader
 
Default RFC: Why are so many debian packages outdated?

I _knew_ Apple was behind this somehow!

-miles

--
Ocean, n. A body of water covering seven-tenths of a world designed for Man -
who has no gills.


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Old 07-27-2012, 07:24 AM
Neil Williams
 
Default RFC: Why are so many debian packages outdated?

On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 01:20:24 +0200
Svante Signell <svante.signell@telia.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 2012-07-26 at 15:58 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Michael Gilbert <mgilbert@debian.org> writes:
> > > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> ...
> > > This would be a case where I think liberal NMUing would certainly be
> > > appropriate (of course prior to the freeze).
> >
> > Yeah, I guess that makes sense, *if* the person doing the NMU then owns
> > any bugs they introduce and of course doesn't do anything drastic like
> > rewriting the build system. And provides plenty of warning.
>
> Please, what can I do being a _contributor_ compared to these "high
> level package maintainers", except filing bug reports. Please advice a
> stupid user who just wants to be using Debian as a GNU/* release(and
> having recent software in them) .

Change tack.

Look at the list of RC bugs and see if you can come up with anything
useful about the problem. There are enough of them, everyone should be
able to do something about some of them.

Can you reproduce it?

Can you identify anything about why it happens?

Can you clarify that it really is the fault of the specified package
and not due to some other package?

Can you add anything about workarounds or possible solutions?

Just reading the LONG list of RC bugs would be something. It would
occupy your time much more usefully than that little button marked
"Send".

Out of date packages in Wheezy *do not matter* because it's too late
now. Do something to help get Wheezy out by helping to fix RC bugs!

That will gain you merit which will be useful when we can do something
about new upstream releases - AFTER our own release.

--


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
 
Old 07-27-2012, 07:52 AM
Svante Signell
 
Default RFC: Why are so many debian packages outdated?

On Fri, 2012-07-27 at 08:24 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 01:20:24 +0200
> Svante Signell <svante.signell@telia.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 2012-07-26 at 15:58 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > > Michael Gilbert <mgilbert@debian.org> writes:
> > > > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > ...
> > > > This would be a case where I think liberal NMUing would certainly be
> > > > appropriate (of course prior to the freeze).
> > >
> > > Yeah, I guess that makes sense, *if* the person doing the NMU then owns
> > > any bugs they introduce and of course doesn't do anything drastic like
> > > rewriting the build system. And provides plenty of warning.
> >
> > Please, what can I do being a _contributor_ compared to these "high
> > level package maintainers", except filing bug reports. Please advice a
> > stupid user who just wants to be using Debian as a GNU/* release(and
> > having recent software in them) .
>
> Change tack.
>
> Look at the list of RC bugs and see if you can come up with anything
> useful about the problem. There are enough of them, everyone should be
> able to do something about some of them.

OK, I'll try to help with Wheezy. Where can I find the complete list of
RC bugs?


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Old 07-27-2012, 08:25 AM
Neil Williams
 
Default RFC: Why are so many debian packages outdated?

On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:52:41 +0200
Svante Signell <svante.signell@telia.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 2012-07-27 at 08:24 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> > Look at the list of RC bugs and see if you can come up with anything
> > useful about the problem. There are enough of them, everyone should be
> > able to do something about some of them.
>
> OK, I'll try to help with Wheezy. Where can I find the complete list of
> RC bugs?

Thanks!
:-)

$ rc-alert
(tells you about RC bugs in packages you actually have installed and
which, therefore you may care about / want fixed / be able to check if
the bug still exists). Part of the devscripts package.

http://www.debian.org/Bugs/

http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/

http://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi

http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals

http://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS

http://wiki.debian.org/DropProblemPackages

http://qa.debian.org/

http://wiki.debian.org/BSP/BeginnersHOWTO

I'm sure there are plenty of other resources.

Maybe arrange a BSP yourself? (or encourage someone near you to arrange
it.)

Join #debian-bugs on IRC, maybe mentors.debian.net & associated list &
IRC channel if you're not familiar with changing packages - but fixing
RC bugs doesn't have to involve anything except interacting with the
BTS. Don't forget that leaf packages with no reverse dependencies can be
removed if that is the most appropriate way to deal with the RC bug
and asking for removal is an action on the BTS, not the package.

http://wiki.debian.org/ftpmaster_Removals

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/pkgs.html#archive-manip

http://qa.debian.org/howto-remove.html

--


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
 
Old 07-27-2012, 08:26 AM
Andrei POPESCU
 
Default RFC: Why are so many debian packages outdated?

On Vi, 27 iul 12, 09:52:41, Svante Signell wrote:
>
> OK, I'll try to help with Wheezy. Where can I find the complete list of
> RC bugs?

You could start with rc-alert (in devscripts) and then continue with
http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/

Hope this helps,
Andrei
--
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:40 PM
Tollef Fog Heen
 
Default RFC: Why are so many debian packages outdated?

]] Michael Gilbert

> True. Part of the problem is appropriate terminology. This is a case
> of what I would call an "undermaintained" package. Even though the
> maintainer is still around, and may be quite active elsewhere, this
> package has not gotten any attention in 2 years (even though multiple
> upstreams have been released in the meantime).

They've mostly been translation updates, which aren't particularly
important. Updating them, while nice, is hardly critical.

--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are


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Old 07-27-2012, 07:44 PM
Tollef Fog Heen
 
Default RFC: Why are so many debian packages outdated?

]] Svante Signell

> I have tried several times and I can give you a recent example, see
> #610209 and especially #669368. I have tried to contribute, but to no
> avail (at least in this case).

None of them are particularly relevant for the release, AFAICS? As for
packaging them in experimental, yes, I could do that, but it's more
effort, etc and I have better places to spend that extra effort.
mlocate isn't a package which I'd be likely to stage in experimental for
some random changes.

--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are


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Old 08-02-2012, 12:04 PM
Thorsten Glaser
 
Default RFC: Why are so many debian packages outdated?

Lars Wirzenius dixit:

> No other browser is available on the Amiga they're using as their only
> computer, either.

lynx-cur, w3m and links2 are known-usable on Debian/m68k,
and I’m working on iceweasel currently (already submitted
one patch, another one coming soon) and webkit (also FTBFS,
will need patches).

Oh, and Ingo reported that the stock Debian sid kernel works
fine on his Amiga.

But yes, good list. While it may sound funny at first, I
believe all of them could happen…

bye,
//mirabilos
--
"Using Lynx is like wearing a really good pair of shades: cuts out
the glare and harmful UV (ultra-vanity), and you feel so-o-o COOL."
-- Henry Nelson, March 1999


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