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Old 06-29-2012, 05:36 PM
Benjamin Drung
 
Default Bug#679547: ITP: ben -- toolbox for Debian maintainers

Am Freitag, den 29.06.2012, 19:21 +0200 schrieb Mehdi Dogguy:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Mehdi Dogguy <mehdi@debian.org>
>
> * Package name : ben
> Version : 0.6
> Upstream Author : Mehdi Dogguy and Stphane Glondu
> * URL : http://ben.debian.net/
> * License : AGPL-3+
> Programming Lang: C, OCaml
> Description : toolbox for Debian maintainers
>
> This is a collection of useful tools that Debian maintainers can use
> to make their packaging work easier. They all work with regular
> Debian package list files, and should be useful for Debian
> derivatives as well. This package ships a single executable, "ben",
> with the following subcommands:
> * download: download a set of package list files from a mirror
> * monitor: monitor the status of a set of packages across several
> architectures (useful for transitions)
> * query: query packages using their metadata (similar to grep-dctrl,
> but uses a dedicated query language)
> * tracker: frontend to multiple monitors

What does ben stand for? Is this just a short name for me?

Would it be useful to have ben in devscripts instead of a separate
package?

--
Benjamin Drung
Debian & Ubuntu Developer
 
Old 06-29-2012, 05:57 PM
Mehdi Dogguy
 
Default Bug#679547: ITP: ben -- toolbox for Debian maintainers

On 29/06/12 19:36, Benjamin Drung wrote:


What does ben stand for? Is this just a short name for me?



Very long story¹.


Would it be useful to have ben in devscripts instead of a separate
package?



No. I beleive devscripts maintainers will not be happy as it requires
OCaml and a few OCaml libs to build. It also builds an OCaml library
that it is meant to grow considerably in future. I don't think it is a
good idea to put it in devscripts.

¹: This has to do with "Britney".

Regards,

--
Mehdi Dogguy مهدي الدڤي
http://dogguy.org/


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Old 06-29-2012, 07:15 PM
Ralf Treinen
 
Default Bug#679547: ITP: ben -- toolbox for Debian maintainers

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 07:21:21PM +0200, Mehdi Dogguy wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Mehdi Dogguy <mehdi@debian.org>
>
> * Package name : ben
> Version : 0.6
> Upstream Author : Mehdi Dogguy and Stphane Glondu
> * URL : http://ben.debian.net/
> * License : AGPL-3+
> Programming Lang: C, OCaml
> Description : toolbox for Debian maintainers

> * query: query packages using their metadata (similar to grep-dctrl,
> but uses a dedicated query language)

Does it subsume the functionality of ara? ara is orphaned since some time,
so this would mean that we could send it into retirement.

-Ralf.


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Old 06-29-2012, 07:16 PM
Mehdi Dogguy
 
Default Bug#679547: ITP: ben -- toolbox for Debian maintainers

On 06/29/2012 09:15 PM, Ralf Treinen wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 07:21:21PM +0200, Mehdi Dogguy wrote:
>> Package: wnpp
>> Severity: wishlist
>> Owner: Mehdi Dogguy <mehdi@debian.org>
>>
>> * Package name : ben
>> Version : 0.6
>> Upstream Author : Mehdi Dogguy and Stéphane Glondu
>> * URL : http://ben.debian.net/
>> * License : AGPL-3+
>> Programming Lang: C, OCaml
>> Description : toolbox for Debian maintainers
>
>> * query: query packages using their metadata (similar to grep-dctrl,
>> but uses a dedicated query language)
>
> Does it subsume the functionality of ara? ara is orphaned since some time,
> so this would mean that we could send it into retirement.
>

(Disclaimer: I never used Ara. I just read its short description from
http://ara.alioth.debian.org/).

For now, "ben query" is just like "grep-dctrl". Not much, not less.
We don't have fancy web interfaces like Ara does.

HTH,

--
Mehdi Dogguy مهدي الدڤي


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Old 06-29-2012, 07:18 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Bug#679547: ITP: ben -- toolbox for Debian maintainers

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 07:36:46PM +0200, Benjamin Drung wrote:
> Am Freitag, den 29.06.2012, 19:21 +0200 schrieb Mehdi Dogguy:
> > Package: wnpp
> > Severity: wishlist
> > Owner: Mehdi Dogguy <mehdi@debian.org>
> >
> > * Package name : ben
> > Version : 0.6
> > Upstream Author : Mehdi Dogguy and Stphane Glondu
> > * URL : http://ben.debian.net/
> > * License : AGPL-3+
> > Programming Lang: C, OCaml
> > Description : toolbox for Debian maintainers
> >
> > This is a collection of useful tools that Debian maintainers can use
> > to make their packaging work easier. They all work with regular
> > Debian package list files, and should be useful for Debian
> > derivatives as well. This package ships a single executable, "ben",
> > with the following subcommands:
> > * download: download a set of package list files from a mirror
> > * monitor: monitor the status of a set of packages across several
> > architectures (useful for transitions)
> > * query: query packages using their metadata (similar to grep-dctrl,
> > but uses a dedicated query language)
> > * tracker: frontend to multiple monitors
>
> What does ben stand for? Is this just a short name for me?

It's part of the ongoing project to create ambiguity between the
developer and package namespaces. We already have packages for abby,
abe, aldo, alex, alice, axel, cecilia, chuck, clementine, clive, dino,
ed, elisa, elmer, elvis, emma, eric, florence, grace, gregorio, hal,
hannah, hercules, ivy, jack, jade, jed, joe, john, jupp, kasumi, kate,
kaya, kiki, kitty, magnus, maki, maria, maude, midge, mona, nana,
olive, paco, pasco, pia, pius, rio, ruby, simba, stella, tessa, tina,
vagrant, vera, yorick, yoshimi (and no doubt other personal names I
don't recognise, not to mention family names) though we are lacking
developers to match many of them.

Ben (Hutchings).

> Would it be useful to have ben in devscripts instead of a separate
> package?

--
Ben Hutchings
We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking.
- Albert Camus


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Old 06-29-2012, 07:52 PM
Dmitrijs Ledkovs
 
Default Bug#679547: ITP: ben -- toolbox for Debian maintainers

On 29/06/12 18:21, Mehdi Dogguy wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Mehdi Dogguy <mehdi@debian.org>
>
> * Package name : ben
> Version : 0.6
> Upstream Author : Mehdi Dogguy and Stphane Glondu
> * URL : http://ben.debian.net/
> * License : AGPL-3+
> Programming Lang: C, OCaml
> Description : toolbox for Debian maintainers
>
> This is a collection of useful tools that Debian maintainers can use
> to make their packaging work easier. They all work with regular
> Debian package list files, and should be useful for Debian
> derivatives as well. This package ships a single executable, "ben",
> with the following subcommands:
> * download: download a set of package list files from a mirror
> * monitor: monitor the status of a set of packages across several
> architectures (useful for transitions)
> * query: query packages using their metadata (similar to grep-dctrl,
> but uses a dedicated query language)
> * tracker: frontend to multiple monitors
>
>
>

Yes! Please package this!!!! I am in ecstasy =)

With respect to names, You could name it something boring like:
debian-transition-tracker or something along the lines.

I will file loads of wishlist bugs, and maybe even help fixing them! Who
knows ;-)

--
Regards,
Dmitrijs.
 
Old 06-29-2012, 11:09 PM
George Danchev
 
Default Bug#679547: ITP: ben -- toolbox for Debian maintainers

On Friday 29 June 2012 21:18:39 Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 07:36:46PM +0200, Benjamin Drung wrote:
> > Am Freitag, den 29.06.2012, 19:21 +0200 schrieb Mehdi Dogguy:
> > > Package: wnpp
> > > Severity: wishlist
> > > Owner: Mehdi Dogguy <mehdi@debian.org>
> > >
> > > * Package name : ben
> > >
> > > Version : 0.6
> > > Upstream Author : Mehdi Dogguy and Stphane Glondu
> > >
> > > * URL : http://ben.debian.net/
> > > * License : AGPL-3+
> > >
> > > Programming Lang: C, OCaml
> > > Description : toolbox for Debian maintainers
> > >
> > > This is a collection of useful tools that Debian maintainers can use
> > > to make their packaging work easier. They all work with regular
> > > Debian package list files, and should be useful for Debian
> > > derivatives as well. This package ships a single executable, "ben",
> > >
> > > with the following subcommands:
> > > * download: download a set of package list files from a mirror
> > > * monitor: monitor the status of a set of packages across several
> > >
> > > architectures (useful for transitions)
> > >
> > > * query: query packages using their metadata (similar to grep-dctrl,
> > >
> > > but uses a dedicated query language)
> > >
> > > * tracker: frontend to multiple monitors
> >
> > What does ben stand for? Is this just a short name for me?
>
> It's part of the ongoing project to create ambiguity between the
> developer and package namespaces. We already have packages for abby,
> abe, aldo, alex, alice, axel, cecilia, chuck, clementine, clive, dino,
> ed, elisa, elmer, elvis, emma, eric, florence, grace, gregorio, hal,
> hannah, hercules, ivy, jack, jade, jed, joe, john, jupp, kasumi, kate,
> kaya, kiki, kitty, magnus, maki, maria, maude, midge, mona, nana,
> olive, paco, pasco, pia, pius, rio, ruby, simba, stella, tessa, tina,
> vagrant, vera, yorick, yoshimi (and no doubt other personal names I
> don't recognise, not to mention family names) though we are lacking
> developers to match many of them.
>
> Ben (Hutchings).

Fair enough, but I'm also concerned that even more dangerous use-cases exist
with so many generic package names... Consider a hypothetical scenario like
that: a happy guy gets back at home, sits behind his box and tries to install
a handful set of "useful" packages and the wife was carelessly listening to
his shouting out various commands from the other room:

apt-get install
hello emma why cheese and wine burn and cook the dog animals instead

half an hour later:
apt-get install
wipe the most sane dates contacts and tasks

(yes, the packages will happily install, but the pets and business contacts
would most likely suffer severe data loss - depending on the wife

--
pub 4096R/0E4BD0AB <people.fccf.net/danchev/key pgp.mit.edu>


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Old 06-30-2012, 01:03 AM
Charles Plessy
 
Default Bug#679547: ITP: ben -- toolbox for Debian maintainers

Le Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 07:21:21PM +0200, Mehdi Dogguy a crit :
>
> This is a collection of useful tools that Debian maintainers can use
> to make their packaging work easier. They all work with regular
> Debian package list files, and should be useful for Debian
> derivatives as well. This package ships a single executable, "ben",
> with the following subcommands:

Hi,

this looks very interesting, but I worry about future name conflicts with the
following scenario:

- More than one project is likely to be intested for taking /usr/bin/ben
as a program name.

- Since Debian's ben is Debian-specific, it will not be noticed by projects
aiming at a wider audience.

- If such a project comes to existence and becomes popular, we will have
another name conflict la node.js.

An alterative scenario is that another project of narrow audience picks ben,
which will cause a conflict of lesser importance as it will be solved on the
usual first-arrived-first-served basis. But the key point is that if we do not
aim at hundred thousands users for a tool, I think that we should avoid
three-letter names.

Have a nice week-end,

--
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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