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Old 06-27-2012, 05:30 PM
Toni Mueller
 
Default scim and assorted packages

Hi,

today I received an email from the FTP masters that a pacakge that is
highly relevant to me, has been pulled from Debian. I understand that
most folks are now looking at that ibus stuff (which is imho not ready
for prime time, yet), but would like to understand better how a package
with only 1 normal and 2 minor bugs can be pulled, and... how I can stay
at the front of this.

/me tries to carve out some time to aid in scim packaging, which still
has a *much*, *much* wider range of supported languages and scripts than
ibus (saying ibus is a replacement for scim is an euphemism, at best).


Kind regards,
--Toni++


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Old 06-27-2012, 05:53 PM
Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho
 
Default scim and assorted packages

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 07:30:11PM +0200, Toni Mueller wrote:
> today I received an email from the FTP masters that a pacakge that is
> highly relevant to me, has been pulled from Debian.

Why not name the package in question? It does not appear to be scim, which is
what you wrote in your subject line.

Looking at the removal log, I see scim-tables was removed today. I assume you
are referring to it.

> how I can stay at the front of this.

The package was orphaned in February and removal was requested in May[1]. Thus
there was plenty of time to "stay at the front of this" if you had wished to.
I'm pretty sure the PTS[2] shows such actions prominently, and it's a good idea
to visit the PTS page of any package you really care about every once in a
while.

[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=659309
[2] http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/scim-tables.html

I believe it's possible to reintroduce the package if there's a willing and
able maintainer, but it'd need to go through NEW again

--
Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho, Jyväskylä, Finland
http://antti-juhani.kaijanaho.fi/newblog/


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Old 06-27-2012, 06:23 PM
Neil Williams
 
Default scim and assorted packages

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 19:30:11 +0200
Toni Mueller <toni@debian.org> wrote:

> today I received an email from the FTP masters that a pacakge that is
> highly relevant to me, has been pulled from Debian.

Which package? scim doesn't seem to have been removed.

> I understand that
> most folks are now looking at that ibus stuff (which is imho not ready
> for prime time, yet), but would like to understand better how a package
> with only 1 normal and 2 minor bugs can be pulled, and... how I can stay
> at the front of this.

Was it due to a dependency which needed to be removed for other
reasons. Was this one of the Qt3 related removals?

Packages are removed for more reasons than just to close their bugs, RC
or not. Abandonware is a common reason for removal. Also, packages are
often removed to *avoid* RC bugs when a dependency needs to be removed.
There's always a bug report, there's always a delay to try and find
someone with the time to update the package before the dependency is
removed.

> /me tries to carve out some time to aid in scim packaging, which still
> has a *much*, *much* wider range of supported languages and scripts than
> ibus (saying ibus is a replacement for scim is an euphemism, at best).

It's a bit late now to offer help, this close to the freeze. The
package can come back into experimental via NEW, if the reasons for the
removal are fixed. Then someone would need to do the work of creating a
backport after the Wheezy release, after getting the package back into
testing (wheezy+1).

The notice from the ftp-master will link to the bug report detailing
why the package was removed. It would help if you could mention the
specific packages and the specific bug reports.

http://ftp-master.debian.org/removals.txt

Is this the one?

[Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:40:08 +0000] [ftpmaster: Alexander
Reichle-Schmehl] Removed the following packages from unstable:

scim-modules-table | 0.5.9-1 | amd64, armel, armhf, i386, ia64,
kfreebsd-amd64, kfreebsd-i386, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, s390x,
sparc scim-modules-table | 0.5.9-1+b2 | hurd-i386 scim-tables |
0.5.9-1 | source scim-tables-additional | 0.5.9-1 | all
scim-tables-ja | 0.5.9-1 | all
scim-tables-ko | 0.5.9-1 | all
scim-tables-zh | 0.5.9-1 | all
Closed bugs: 659309

------------------- Reason -------------------
RoQA; orphand, no upstream, out dated
----------------------------------------------
Also closing bug(s): 378158 558636 618314 649881 676016

From the #659309 bug report:

> scim-tables is SCIM's table engine with quite a few table data files
> along with it, which serves some CJK users. It has been several months
> after orphaning the package and nobody stands up to continue to
> maintain it. Users should move to other input method framework
> including ibus and fcitx. There is a so-called new upstream which is
> actually gathering random patches from ordinary users, and they aren't
> actually "maintain" or do actual improvements. I hereby request for
> its removal.

That seems a perfectly good reason to remove a package.

To stay up to date with such things, watch the WNPP messages on this
list. This package was orphaned Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:17:05 - so it's
been over 4 months and nobody came up with the time to maintain it.
There's also wnpp-alert in the devscripts package. The orphaning bug
was reassigned to ftp for removal on Sun, 6 May 2012.

If this isn't the package you're thinking about, then the same methods
will show the detail of the package itself.

Finally, removals only affect those wanting to install the package for
the first time - if you already have it installed, your installation
isn't affected. The packages and dependencies may, of course, change
but as the package is orphaned, it's unlikely that this would be fixed
if the package was retained - indeed it just makes it likely that the
package would be removed at that point as uninstallable and likely
FTBFS which are RC bugs.

--


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
 
Old 06-28-2012, 01:06 PM
Osamu Aoki
 
Default scim and assorted packages

Hi,

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 07:30:11PM +0200, Toni Mueller wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> today I received an email from the FTP masters that a pacakge that is
> highly relevant to me, has been pulled from Debian. I understand that
> most folks are now looking at that ibus stuff (which is imho not ready
> for prime time, yet), but would like to understand better how a package
> with only 1 normal and 2 minor bugs can be pulled, and... how I can stay
> at the front of this.
>
> /me tries to carve out some time to aid in scim packaging, which still
> has a *much*, *much* wider range of supported languages and scripts than
> ibus (saying ibus is a replacement for scim is an euphemism, at best).

This is because no one wished to maintain it in IME Packaging Team
<pkg-ime-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. I approved you to join.

I understand ibus in current state is pain for dead-key lovers and scim
has few more Chinese input method support (the lack of support for some
of those for ibus was license review caused them to be blocked. We
never raised issue for scim since it was EOL at this moment.)
http://code.google.com/p/ibus/wiki/ChineseTableLicenseAuditing

The current SCIM package in Debian does not use scim-bridge-*. The
current scim maintainer thought it was not needed. This makes scim
quite unstable for every CPP abi change problem. Also it source has
been in zombie state for long time.

If you read BTS of related packages, you get to understand what has
happened.

If dead key is the pain point, packaging upstream unstable branch 1.4.99
(to be 1.5) for ibus is said to fix it. But we have upstream stable
version 1.4.1 for ibus. It seems some configuration features of 1.5
ibus is not as complete as 1.4.1 one. This needs to be checked. I
think fixing this bug for 1.4.1 by back porting may be one option.

We can continue ime specific issues at
pkg-ime-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org

Osamu

PS: What do you find missing in ibus?
We have 57 ibus* packages
We have 17 scim* packages



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Old 06-28-2012, 04:33 PM
Clint Adams
 
Default scim and assorted packages

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 10:06:31PM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> PS: What do you find missing in ibus?

Not being able to use Multi_key/Compose sequences is a
showstopper for me.


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Old 06-28-2012, 05:46 PM
Thomas Goirand
 
Default scim and assorted packages

On 06/28/2012 09:06 PM, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> PS: What do you find missing in ibus?
> We have 57 ibus* packages
> We have 17 scim* packages
>
I miss the crashes and unpredictability of SCIM!

Thomas


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Old 06-29-2012, 12:45 AM
Charles Plessy
 
Default scim and assorted packages

Le Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 10:06:31PM +0900, Osamu Aoki a écrit :
>
> This is because no one wished to maintain it in IME Packaging Team
> <pkg-ime-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. I approved you to join.
>
> I understand ibus in current state is pain for dead-key lovers and scim
> has few more Chinese input method support (the lack of support for some
> of those for ibus was license review caused them to be blocked. We
> never raised issue for scim since it was EOL at this moment.)
> http://code.google.com/p/ibus/wiki/ChineseTableLicenseAuditing

Hi,

thank you for the update on this list as well.

I think that we are in a typical case, where a bug affects a subcategory of
users, who are not well represented among the developers (probably using Ibus
for English-Chinese or English-Japanese switches), and who are not particularly
skilled to solve the problem by themselves. Do-o-craty does not help here.

Perhaps one solution is to resort to pledge-based payed development ? I would
be more than happy to pay for getting the support either in Wheezy or as a
backport.

By the way, how is that problem solved in Ubuntu ? Perhaps there is a good
synergy to have there...

Have a nice day,

--
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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